Belt Drive Alignment Problems

Wess Bob · #1 (**permalink**) 08-19-2012, 11:22 AM

Hey Guys, this is the first time to ask a question on one of these forums and I have plenty of them. First off, I have a 2005 Raven Prowler 250 rear tire and RSD soft tail. Its first owner was a long time friend that passed away in June 2011. I had to have his bike so long story short, I own it. The bad thing is Jesse ain't here for me to ask him questions about it and the builder and dealer is outta business. Yammens from Houston was the dealer. I've not heard one good thing about Yammens. Back to the problems. I bought a 3.35 Celtic open primary from Southern Motorcycle Works for it. The belt drive is mostly Ultima's Drag Style set up. I was told that this would be a simple bolt on. It had a Rivera Primo 1 3/4" closed belt drive on it. The inner primary has 1/2" stamped inside it. When I put the new motor plate on it, with it flush up against the transmission, there is 7/16" gap to the motor. I'm finding out there isn't a spacer plate or a pulley offset that size. Should I get a 1/2" and try to move the motor over? I met a guy that has a little experience with the Raven and he told me that there was an alignment problem with the frame and that Raven put a longer transmission shaft in it. I think that it has a Trick Shift trans in it, but not sure. I believe that the frame is from Pro Street Frameworks. I talked to James there and he couldn't tell me what the offset is because they didnt have records back to then. How can I measure for the offset for the front pulley and the spacer ring? Next question. When the clutch basket is installed, does it just bottom out against the end of the splines or up against the bearing in the motor plate. There is about 1/2" gap from where the clutch hub stops to the bearing. I'll just shut up for now and let you guys have at it.

pop 28 · #2 (**permalink**) 08-19-2012, 04:14 PM

welcome.... dont mess with the engine!!!! is the tranny plate bolted to the frame? or is it welded? what i would do is loosen the nuts and bolts on the tranny and the tranny plate if bolted down. that should give you some movement so you then can use a 5/16" or a 1/2" alternator spacer.. once you have that bolt everthing down. do'nt force or draw anything together it has the fit with eaze working off the trany pully use a long straight edge on front and back face of the trany pulley and extend it to the front pulley get some measurments for the front pulley offset... once use get that for report back... good luck

Batto · #3 (**permalink**) 08-19-2012, 09:39 PM

Wess,clutch should just miss the engine plate 1/8 inch or so, basket should be at the splines. if it dont fit and the basket is to far away from the motor plate then you will need to releave the basket by grinding away some of the inner where the spline meet. If you need to move trans around then you will need to align back wheel and pully or chain and srpokets so all run true. you can shim you tranny to the engine plate if you have to. good luck mate...

Wess Bob · #4 (**permalink**) 08-19-2012, 10:59 PM

Thanks for the suggestions. I found that the motor and trans were not square in the frame I have tightened them both up a few times. I thought that the primary would hold them straight. That explains why my other belt had 3/4" play in it. My tranny mount is welded in the frame and my final drive is a belt. I have got both of them straight, looks like a 1/2" spacer ring and pulley offset will do. Now I hit another bump in the road. I have a clearance problem that Batto addressed above. What do you suggest I use to grind down the splines with? The outter bearing support lacks about 1/8" from mating up with the spacers. My old belt drive had a thick washer/spacer between the front pulley and the alternator. Do I use this or can I leave it out. If I leave it out and get a 1/2" offset, I think that will get me there. Also, how much slack should there be in this 3.35 belt? This ain't just a bolt on operation I'm finding out. The way things are going it looks like I might not be taking it to Ruidoso next month for the Golden Aspen Rally. I'll just take Ol Fathfulll, The Street Glide with me. Anyone else out there gonna go?*

RB Donovan · #5 (**permalink**) 08-20-2012, 10:26 AM

I don't think I would be grinding on the basket.
Unless you know the mating face of the basket is ground true, then the basket will never mate against the spacer squarely and you've made junk of the hub.
My thought would be to replace the spacer on the trans. behind the hub to something like this,
Transmission Mainshaft Sprocket / Pulley Spacer*::*Transmission Sprockets & Pulleys*::*Motorway Engineering Co.

This one is .600 thick. There are 2 that I know of. The other one is .850 thick. If the .850 is the one you have, as a second resort I would turn this on a lathe to the thickness you need.
It's very inexpensive to go this route, and possibly not make junk of the hub.

Priced a hub lately?

RedWings · #6 (**permalink**) 08-20-2012, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wess Bob

Hey Guys, this is the first time to ask a question on one of these forums and I have plenty of them. First off, I have a 2005 Raven Prowler 250 rear tire and RSD soft tail. Its first owner was a long time friend that passed away in June 2011. I had to have his bike so long story short, I own it. The bad thing is Jesse ain't here for me to ask him questions about it and the builder and dealer is outta business. Yammens from Houston was the dealer. I've not heard one good thing about Yammens. Back to the problems. I bought a 3.35 Celtic open primary from Southern Motorcycle Works for it. The belt drive is mostly Ultima's Drag Style set up. I was told that this would be a simple bolt on. It had a Rivera Primo 1 3/4" closed belt drive on it. The inner primary has 1/2" stamped inside it. When I put the new motor plate on it, with it flush up against the transmission, there is 7/16" gap to the motor. I'm finding out there isn't a spacer plate or a pulley offset that size. Should I get a 1/2" and try to move the motor over? I met a guy that has a little experience with the Raven and he told me that there was an alignment problem with the frame and that Raven put a longer transmission shaft in it. I think that it has a Trick Shift trans in it, but not sure. I believe that the frame is from Pro Street Frameworks. I talked to James there and he couldn't tell me what the offset is because they didnt have records back to then. How can I measure for the offset for the front pulley and the spacer ring? Next question. When the clutch basket is installed, does it just bottom out against the end of the splines or up against the bearing in the motor plate. There is about 1/2" gap from where the clutch hub stops to the bearing. I'll just shut up for now and let you guys have at it.

some inner primaries have offset built in so you don't need spacer (I have 1 on my bike) so you have to make up the difference on your new drive. A 1/2" offset will do fine. loosen the motor/tranny bolts, install your new inner plate with spacer, tighten it up, check mounts with a feeler gauge and install shims if needed, tighten mount bolts and away you go. I like my belts just a little floppy so theres less pressure on the bearings.

Captain America · #7 (**permalink**) 08-20-2012, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedWings

...I like my belts just a little floppy so theres less pressure on the bearings.

+1 on that. Too tight is waaaaaaay worse than too loose on belts and chains.

Wess Bob · #8 (**permalink**) 08-20-2012, 10:53 PM

Did some grinding on the basket today after I measured it, then measured it and measured it about 5 more times. I took 3/16" of the splines out. Have a little clearance on the bearing support plate , bout 1/16", but noted about 1/4 " clearance between the basket and the motor plate. I was just gonna live with that then I thought about the starter. Bolted it up and it looked ok till I put the starter gear cover on. There was less than a hair clearance between it and the starter ring. So I will pull it off tomorrow and take a little more off. I'm afraid that I'm gonna end up with a oddball size for the front pulley offset. Can I shim the front pulley out with washers? My old belt drive had one between it and the alternator. Is one required to even out the pressure against the alternator?*

Wess Bob · #9 (**permalink**) 08-22-2012, 01:16 AM

Now the splines are protruding through the clutch hub and wont allow the clutch to draw up tight against the splines, Question for today, should I open up the washer a little to get past the splines, so the nut can pull the pulley un tight, or should I get to grinding on on the splines!!!!

MAKO6 · #10 (**permalink**) 08-22-2012, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wess Bob

Now the splines are protruding through the clutch hub and wont allow the clutch to draw up tight against the splines, Question for today, should I open up the washer a little to get past the splines, so the nut can pull the pulley un tight, or should I get to grinding on on the splines!!!!

DO NOT GRIND THE SPLINES..!

Not trying to dis ya Bud, but I STRONGLY recommend that you have someone maybe with a little more experience with OBD's come by and have a look. What you are doing is really a bolt on operation.

I cringe when I hear things like grinding away mating surfaces, when most likely all you may need would be the propper spacer(s).

Mak

Wess Bob · #11 (**permalink**) 08-22-2012, 09:07 PM

Mako6, I ain't about to grind on the tranny shaft. If its not raining friday, I'm gonna take it to a shop that has been helping me. I agree about this being a bolt. But there was something wrong with this frame from the very begining. I wish I could find someone that has first hand knowlage about the Raven bike. What would really help is if Pro Street Frameworks, or their new owner, Ultimate Cycles had some documentation on the frame.

MAKO6 · #12 (**permalink**) 08-23-2012, 01:07 AM

Good plan of action, I bet when you find where the actual problem is (correct hardware / frame?) the rest will come together once its sorted out.

Post a few more replies so that you can put up some pictures, may give the rest of us a visual of exactly where your trouble is comming from.

Mak

RedWings · #13 (**permalink**) 08-23-2012, 05:54 AM

look, don't worry about a 1/16 difference in the front pulley that don't mount to a pisshole in a snow bank. don't be grinding on the basket or washers, if it don't fit theres a reason why and you have to find out.

Wess Bob · #14 (**permalink**) 08-28-2012, 04:09 PM

The belt is riding up against the outside edge of the front pulley. gonna get a spacer made to put between the pulley and the insert. I know 1/16" aint worth worring about but I'm like that. If i wasn't, I'd been through with this along time ago! Thanks again for everyones input!