Power for 230V miller TIG welder

[CloudDiver]

Wow... That's a ton of info, Thanks guys... I knew asking this question would get a little debate going because of all the various differences in power set ups. I saw the same kind of thing when i tried to research the answer myself with Google but it was way too confusing.
Like I mentioned before a more common issue is that guys have newer Syncrowave rigs they want to run at home and need to convert from single phase to three pahse, not the other way around.
But now I'm clear I do not have 3 phase... Just single pahse with two hot legs. I did meter each leg and got 120V off each one. So pull the netural wire and put on the ground on the ground pin, and one each hot on the the two blades?
Ok... I can't post pics cause I'm at work but I made a regular plug in a junction box for the three blade welder plug to go into... That has green ground, white neutral on the fatter blade and black hot on the skinnier blade. So when I plug the buisness end into the wall socket The black hot will make contact with the black hot... but the white neutral will make contact with red hot, is that right? Won't that short?
Also, I'm fairly sure that is 10ga wire through the wall, not 6ga (I could be wrong, as is often the case). Also, as I mentioned before there are two 30 amp breakers, one on each hot. As I understand that DOES NOT give you a combined 60 amps, you still just have 30 amps. The main box is on the outside of the house east wall, same wall as the long left wall of the garage. I think it would be a safer bet to run a whole new 50 amp breaker with to gauge wire into the garage, it'll be a short run without tearing up the wall too much.

[CloudDiver]

BTW, the Econotig is 52 amp. If I get my whip to work safely (which is on 30 amp breakers), and I'm sure my whip cable is 10awg, not 6awg, I could pop the breakers or burn the wire in the wall as well as the cable... but that's if I'm at full duty cycle. If I keep it dialed down, because none of my work is that thick, I should be ok?
It's not my house here in Phoenix, it belongs to my roommate. But he is a welder too and he's as excited about having this TIG in the garage as I am. I'm pretty sure he won't mind putting a new 50amp breaker and 6 awg wire run into the garage because he will want it for himself anyway. (edited, above it had said 10 awg before and I realized my mistake later and changed to 6 awg, that is what I meant to say... new dedicated circuit with appropriate cable/breaker).

[Barefoot Choppa]

Um....you need to reread what was stated. Based on your responce, please do yourself and your roomate a favor and hire an electrician.

[RedWings]

in this case barefoot is right there is no neutral in a 220 circuit so to speak, each hot leg acts as a neutral on every half phase. If you got copper wire in the wall a #10 is good for 30 amps if you want to run 50 amps that wire is not big enough. you should have 3 wires coming out of your welder, 2 flat blades for the 2 hot wires and a 3rd green wire which grounds to the wall box or the internal green wire or preferable grounded both ways so you don't fry yourself in case of a ground somewhere. 30 amps is plenty to weld steel but aluminum not so much. do not go bigger on the fuses, they're maxed now.

[MAKO6]

Hey Rick, if he can get 50 amp service at the (breaker) box he could then have an electrician wire in a service recepticle, and then just use a # 00 gauge extension cable to the welder and not have to deal with the in the wall code wiring.

Or not?

Mak

[Barefoot Choppa]

Originally Posted by MAKO6

Hey Rick, if he can get 50 amp service at the (breaker) box he could then have an electrician wire in a service recepticle, and then just use a # 00 gauge extension cable to the welder and not have to deal with the in the wall code wiring.

Or not?

Mak

Not an acceptable practice and I wouldn't do it residentially. In a pinch and for temporary hook up, usually 1 day I have done it commercially to accomodate an outside contractor. Heres the thing, several things have to be taken into consideration.
1) What is the main rated at? 200A? 150A or is it an older residence with atiquated wiring and underated service like 60A? This is the starting point.
2) What are the loads currently being used in said main?
3) Now that we have determined 1&2, can a 50A breaker be added as in breaker space available. Can an existing (30A) be removed to accomodate this?
4) If the answer is no, a sub panel may be in the works.
5) @ cloudiver, 10 gauge wire is not acceptable on a 50A circuit. 6 gauge will work, 4 if its a long run of 100' or more to accomodate the voltage drop.
Sorry this is long winded but this may be out of someones league, hate to see or hear af someones house burning down due to bad wiring practices...

[MAKO6]

All of this is good info, not only for the OP but for all members. Given this, the OP should considder his options very carefully.

Mak

[CloudDiver]

@ Barefoot; I can post the various info on the main box when I get home. At this point I have no plans on running the TIG off the 30/30 amp 10 awg drop in the laundry room, too risky and the whip itself I'm almost certain is 10 awg as well.
We already know we have the room in the main box for a new 50 amp breaker, but we'll go 60 since the EconoTig is rated at 52 amps max. I'm thinking a wall mounted service disconnect box, the run should be less than 10 feet, proabably 6. The main is right on the other side of the wall in the garage where we would mount the box. Also making a new 25 ft whip with 6 awg and better amp rated 3 prong plugs than the ones at Home Depot, although I think they are 75 amp rated?

[mle]

Originally Posted by CloudDiver

@ Barefoot; I can post the various info on the main box when I get home. At this point I have no plans on running the TIG off the 30/30 amp 10 awg drop in the laundry room, too risky and the whip itself I'm almost certain is 10 awg as well.
We already know we have the room in the main box for a new 50 amp breaker, but we'll go 60 since the EconoTig is rated at 52 amps max. I'm thinking a wall mounted service disconnect box, the run should be less than 10 feet, proabably 6. The main is right on the other side of the wall in the garage where we would mount the box. Also making a new 25 ft whip with 6 awg and better amp rated 3 prong plugs than the ones at Home Depot, although I think they are 75 amp rated?

Ask a question and there are no simple answers.....
Based on the picture of your dryer plug and the box in the wall , I'm quite sure that the house isn't that old and/or it has been upgraded. Your welder has a 50 amp plug and that is the size breaker that you want. I've been an electrician for 36 years and have been an electrical contractor for the last 21 years. If you want to talk (code) You can't put a 60 amp breaker on a 50 amp plug. If you were local and called us to install this welder circuit and we didn't have your plug configuration on the truck , I would stop at HomeDepot or Lowes and pick up a Leviton, P&S or Cooper 50 amp plug because it is the same brand that we would get at the Electrical supply. Your welder is on a duty cycle and I seriously doubt that your even going to get close to pulling 50 amps. I agree with Barefoot in finding a local electrician.

[CloudDiver]

@ Barefoot and Mle;
The below pic is the Square D box, 200 amp main. House was built in 97, signed by electrician on the left side. We have six slots remaining in the lower left.
H-D and Lowes do not have any 60 Amp service disconnect boxes in stock except the A/C style, and we want one with a big arm on the outside, so we'll probably find that at Capitol Electric. We'll also get the 6 awg cable there too, price is better to begin with plus both of our employers have accounts which would give us the discounted price.
I picked up a 60 amp square D breaker, same as in the second pic which is what our central A/C is on. So you are saying that we don't need a 60 amp breaker? The 50 amp is sufficient? I only got the 60 because the Miller is rated for 52 amps, but I get what you are saying about not actually pulling that much. I also noticed the male and female 3 prong plugs were all rated at 50 amps at H-D and Lowes, so I thought we might check Cap.Elec. for higher rated heavy duty plugs. Also, a suggestion from Vern Lewis Welding was to hard wire the whip into the service disconnect box because the plug ends tend to wear out, only disadvantage is that the whip becomes permanent and not portable.

I'm not saying we won't have an electrician wire it up, we'll just do some of the pre-work ourselves and assemble the components. Trust me, I ain't sticking my hands in there even with the 200 main switched off... I do learn as I go but I'm not saying I'm suddenly ready to do this job.
We'll set up the box on the wall, make the whip etc... but we'll have the Sparky from Adam's company swing by and actually run the hot from the main to the new breaker and the new line from the breaker to the service disconnect box. Sound like the right plan?

[CloudDiver]

The run ended up being less than 6 feet from the Main Panel directly through and slightly to the right in the wall behind. A heavy duty double gang box, 50 amp out let, 50 amp 2 pole breaker, and 12 ft of black 6 wag and 6 feet of green wag = around $50. We had Adam's sparky from his company swing by, but made us do all the work anyway. Outlet tested great and welder fires up. Its late, we just got done (the simple job involved shifting a ton of stuff around in the garage), so I'll get a bottle of gas sometime this week and run a few test beads. I'll post more in my build thread.

If anyone has any questions the other guys who posted here are probably better to answer them than me, but I will say this wasn't really hard and didn't require a fist full of dollars in parts.

[06 pitbull]

yes I agree... you wont find much 3 ph in homes..not usually... you did the right thing set you a new 50 amp curcuit... just check your max load on your load center..I also handle industrial maintence.. just replaced a 300 HP 480 vac motor the other day....