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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-25-2011, 03:48 PM
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Rear Brake Problem....

Hey Guys,


Ok... brief background here, my bobber is built on a Santee Rigid Straight Leg frame stock rake..... it takes parts from 84-99 Softails and is a LSD with a chain. I bought this bike more or less complete already, but it's been rough around the edges so I've been replacing things to make it more reliable and ride better.

It runs good now, but the brakes always I thought were very weak, especially the rear brake. It had stock softail single puck brakes on it front and rear from the 80's and the rear brake I always felt barely worked (never could lock up the rear wheel)..... so I decided to upgrade. I got a set of front and rear 4 piston calipers from HHI and with the accompanying rear softail caliper bracket.

I got the front brake on and shimmed no problem...... the rear.... well that's proven to be a real headache so far. Problem is it has basically all stock softail appropriate parts on it, but it appears that the rear rotor sits too close to the frame even with the appropriate wheel spacers on the right and left side to center the rear wheel. If I actually get the brake on over the rotor and in place, the outside brake pad is mashed against the rotor and the wheel won't even spin. Due to how it's mounted (bracket slides on the frame) I don't know how to move the caliper and bracket outwards to center it. All I can think of is to add a longer axle spacer on the right side since all the spacers and shims I see for the rotor or caliper would only move it further outwards which isn't the way I need to go.

I've taken the whole thing apart and back together several times and I even tried swapping the axle spacers just to see what would happen, but of course that throws the rear sprocket and wheel off center. Is it ok to add a longer axle spacer on the right side to push out the distance from the brake and rotor to give me more room to work with? It's so tight as it is I don't know if I can get the frame to stretch much more.

I'm a noob here, so maybe I'm overlooking the obvious, any and all advice I appreicate, so thanks in advance!


--JF
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 11-25-2011, 04:15 PM
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you have to center the caliper just like centering the wheel
so yes you have to shorten the spacer on one side of the caliper bracket
and lengthen the one on the other side
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 11-25-2011, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flaminbob View Post
Hey Guys,


Ok... brief background here, my bobber is built on a Santee Rigid Straight Leg frame stock rake..... it takes parts from 84-99 Softails and is a LSD with a chain. I bought this bike more or less complete already, but it's been rough around the edges so I've been replacing things to make it more reliable and ride better.

It runs good now, but the brakes always I thought were very weak, especially the rear brake. It had stock softail single puck brakes on it front and rear from the 80's and the rear brake I always felt barely worked (never could lock up the rear wheel)..... so I decided to upgrade. I got a set of front and rear 4 piston calipers from HHI and with the accompanying rear softail caliper bracket.

I got the front brake on and shimmed no problem...... the rear.... well that's proven to be a real headache so far. Problem is it has basically all stock softail appropriate parts on it, but it appears that the rear rotor sits too close to the frame even with the appropriate wheel spacers on the right and left side to center the rear wheel. If I actually get the brake on over the rotor and in place, the outside brake pad is mashed against the rotor and the wheel won't even spin. Due to how it's mounted (bracket slides on the frame) I don't know how to move the caliper and bracket outwards to center it. All I can think of is to add a longer axle spacer on the right side since all the spacers and shims I see for the rotor or caliper would only move it further outwards which isn't the way I need to go.

I've taken the whole thing apart and back together several times and I even tried swapping the axle spacers just to see what would happen, but of course that throws the rear sprocket and wheel off center. Is it ok to add a longer axle spacer on the right side to push out the distance from the brake and rotor to give me more room to work with? It's so tight as it is I don't know if I can get the frame to stretch much more.

I'm a noob here, so maybe I'm overlooking the obvious, any and all advice I appreicate, so thanks in advance!


--JF
I Hope what I ask & advise you helps you Dude.....
Does your rear ROTOR fit flush up against the rear wheel hub (bolted directly to the rear wheel hub)-or is there a spacer in there as well that offsets the rear rotor from fitting flush-or further right towards the rear frame rails...?
It seems to me from your description that the rear Rotor is spaced Too far *OFF* the rear hub and is causing you fitment problems-so reply back.
If I am not reading your question right...I Apologise so just reply and I'll reply back to try and help you fix this small dilemma.
Vince
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 11-25-2011, 04:39 PM
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Hey guys, thanks for the replies!

I just went and double checked, but no actually, the rear rotor is bolted directly to the hub. There is no spacer there.... I wish to God there WAS a spacer there, then it would be easy to remove it and all would be well most likely. You are indeed reading my problem correctly though.

The only spacer I see is used on the drive side.... there is a spacer behind the drive sprocket, but no spacer on the brake rotor on the right side.

I really don't understand this because the wheel was aligned properly to begin with, the fender is centered as well and it has appropriate axle spacers for an 80's softail.... i.e. longer spacer on the drive side and the short one on the right side that has the brakes. it has a standard softail rotor rear rotor on it also, but for some reason the rear brake doesn't fit properly, there just isn't enough room there.

I attempted to swap the axle spacers and use the short one on the drive side and the longer one on the right side (brake side) but that seems to throw the rear wheel off center and rear sprocket off center if I bolted it down like that. I know that a standard softail has the spacers set like how they were on the bike, but I can tell the rear brake on this thing has never fit right. The bike never stopped from the rear brake like it's supposed to.

Last edited by flaminbob; 11-25-2011 at 04:42 PM..
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Old 11-25-2011, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triker View Post
you have to center the caliper just like centering the wheel
so yes you have to shorten the spacer on one side of the caliper bracket
and lengthen the one on the other side
Triker,


Thanks for the reply, but I'm just trying to get the rear brake bolted on there at all, it almost doesn't fit at all it's so tight. The caliper and bracket I'm not even using spacers at all so far.... it's so tight between the frame and rear rotor I can barely mount the thing.... even with the wheel on center how it's supposed to be.

I tried actually switching axle spacers because the longer one would push out the caliper mounting bracket, but I can tell this will throw my wheel off center and makes it actually rub the fender if I try that..... not to mention the rear drive sprocket and chain won't be aligned anymore either.

I know I need to center things up, but I can barely get it mounted. I can tell this was a problem for the previous owner because when i bought the bike the rear brake barely worked.
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  #6 (permalink)  
Old 11-25-2011, 05:01 PM
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how about a coouple of pics ?
that would help us understand what you are looking at
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  #7 (permalink)  
Old 11-25-2011, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triker View Post
how about a coouple of pics ?
that would help us understand what you are looking at
Ok hopefully I get this right...... thanks again for the help. I know this seems simple, but I just don't get why things aren't lining up.


Rear Brake Problem....-leftside.jpg

Rear Brake Problem....-rightspacer.jpg

Rear Brake Problem....-rightcaliper.jpg

Rear Brake Problem....-rightrotor.jpg

Rear Brake Problem....-center.jpg


So there's shots of the left side, right side, how the caliper lines up to the rotor and the center of the wheel. As you can see in the caliper shot, when put on the frame slot and beginning to slide it in place it's mounted far to the inside. It doesn't show in the pic, but if I actually get it in place it's the rotor is so tight against the outside pad the wheel won't turn.

Thanks for the help....


--JF

Last edited by flaminbob; 11-25-2011 at 06:24 PM..
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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2011, 07:20 AM
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Seeing the wheel is a spoke wheel you either need to change out the wheel hub or figure out how to machine the caliper mount to allow the caliper some room to work properly. Moving the wheel over doesn't look possible. It looks like you've gone with too big a wheel for that frame.

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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2011, 07:57 AM
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only 1 fix for that. Take the wheel to someone and have the spokes offset enough so the caliper clears the frame, install 2 new axle spacers, realign drive sprocket.
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2011, 08:57 AM
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Change the bracket and rotate the caliper to a different position.

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Kinda like this.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2011, 09:20 AM
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I'd look at using a different brake mounting plate like I have used in these pictures,you just don't have the room between the frame and disc to fit that type of caliper and mount...........




Last edited by magnum45pete; 11-26-2011 at 10:39 AM..
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2011, 12:03 PM
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Thanks for the replies guys!!

Yeah I was kinda worried about this. When I got this bike it somehow had this same wheel and hub configuration along with this rear brake installed back there...



I don't know how he did it and got it to work..... some of the bracket was machined down a little for clearance, but it was back there albeit it never worked all that well.

So I guess my options are new wheel setup or replace the hub..... or a new brake mount. I like the idea of a different mount with a drag link, anyone think I could just drill a hole out of the mounting tab that is there and bolt the drag link to that?

Man this sux....... lol. Thanks for the replies though.


--JF

Last edited by flaminbob; 11-26-2011 at 12:11 PM..
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Old 11-26-2011, 02:39 PM
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Can you take any off the frame wear the rear caliper mounts to move it out any? You would then have to mill the spacer part of the caliper mount to keep the caliper straight. We used to do that to the stock brackets to get a wider tyre in a stock width frame. It soulds like thats what someone has done with your original caliper. The stock caliper is deeper in the groove that goes over the frame so typically we just mill the spacer part. The spacer they have on the drive is there to get the chain or belt to clear the tyre. You might be able to remove it since you are running a chain and shift everything to the left to get clearance. Typically we offset everything .200" to get the wheel dead center on a stock HD to get the larger tyre in there. HD runs the rear wheel offset to the left to help offset the primary weight and give the bike better balance.

Another option is to have someone relace your wheel and offsetting the hub. With a spoke wheel you can locate hub right or left during assembly.

A third option would be swap the rear caliper mount for a rigid style that uses a linkage rod. If you have a two piece rear caliper its just a matter of changing the bracket. It will require welding a tab to hook the linkage to but the caliper is located under the frame at 6 oclock position and will alleviate your caliper to frame clearance issues
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Old 11-26-2011, 04:48 PM
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Below are some options if you want to build your own. The set up on the gold bike I built based off a Fab Kevin design. The second I saw somewhere and figure on trying in the future.




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Last edited by JoeyD; 11-26-2011 at 06:54 PM..
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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 11-26-2011, 05:01 PM
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Just a thought, Are you shure the pistons are all the way retracted. Have you tried mounting it without the pads in place to see if the rotor is in the center of the caliper.
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