Club Chopper Forums Industrial Parts House  

Go Back   Club Chopper Forums > CHOPPER SHOP/TECH AREA > Shop Talk

Welcome to Club Chopper!  The World's largest and coolest place to be on the net if you dig the following!

  •  » Custom Bikes
  •  » Killer Paint
  •  » Old School Craftsmanship
  •  » Building and Wrenching
  •  » Hot Babes
  •  » Chopper Build Logs

...then you have come to the right place!

YES! I want to register an account for free right now!  p.s.: For registered members this ad will NOT show

Chopper Tech
Tech Article
Tech Article
Tech Article
Tech Article
Tech Article
Main Menu
Module Jump:
Club Chop Gallery

Club Chopper Gallery

Submit Your Photos!

Active Threads
Identify 2up or 4 up
Last Post: Spade115
Posted On: Today
Replies: 13
Views: 354
specs on chop
Last Post: STEINBVG
Posted On: Today
Replies: 4
Views: 78
Ultima Jackshaft Problem
Last Post: DeafBillyGoat
Posted On: Yesterday
Replies: 4
Views: 80
West coast chopper build.
Last Post: 1993SSP
Posted On: Yesterday
Replies: 6
Views: 202
WTB: chopper fucker battery box
Last Post: Half-Fast
Posted On: 11-14-2017
Replies: 3
Views: 275
More...
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2009, 11:02 PM
Club Chopper Member
Visit my Photo Gallery
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Parsippany, NJ
Posts: 650
Not Ranked     
Engine timing - What am I missing?

Ok, from what I understand about how to set up engine timing, you first have to have the engine at Top-Dead-Center on the compression stroke. Then, with the ignition module (in this example, a Crane HI-4 single fire) wires connected to the coil and the key in the "Run" position (assuming all of the power is connected), press the ignition module against the rotor cup and turn it slightly clockwise until the static timing LED light illuminates. Secure the ignition module with the two mounting bolts so it won't move.

Now that's as far as I understand. I've read through the Ultima engine manual, as well as the Crane HI-4 manual. The Ultima manual says to NOT use the timing instructions from the ignition module, and the Crane HI-4 manual says NOT to use the timing instructions from the engine manufacturer. Sooooo.....which ones do I use?

They mention (for 127ci engines) specifications for total timing, advance, etc, but I'm not exactly sure what to do. I do know there's a provision on the engine itself to screw in a timing light in the same place that will show where the crankshaft position is, but is that for a dial-back indicator, or for a timing light? Or are they the same thing?

I thought once the static timing light goes on and stays on, and you secure the ignition module so it won't move, that the timing is set, but evidentally as I read more about it, that's not the case.

If anyone could add the rest of the steps and help clear this up for me, I'd appreciate it. I'm just concerned that I'm going to try to fire up the bike for the first time, and the incorrect timing setup is going to cause damage to the engine.

Also, is the ignition module supposed to be able to rotate clockwise and counter-clockwise pretty easily in the ignition cone? I had a hell of a time getting the wires tucked into the ignition cone in order for the ignition module to be vertical, since the wires come out at the 3 o'clock position, and now the thing barely budges (after the mounting bolts have been loosened) when I try to rotate it even a few degrees clockwise or counter-clockwise. Would I need to drill out the hole a little bigger on the bottom of the ignition cone to allow for more clearance for the wires?

Thanks!

Last edited by MikeV019; 05-02-2009 at 11:35 PM..
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2009, 11:27 PM
CENJIM's Avatar
Super Moderator
Visit my Photo Gallery
Lifetime Contributor  
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Coventry, RI
Bike Year, Make, Engine: 2005 BBC Venom Chopper, S&S 96
Posts: 8,804
Not Ranked     
Timing Help
__________________
Ua mau ke ea o ka `aina i ka pono

The life of the land is perpetuated in righteousness.

***********************************

*****************************

"Gentlemen, we must all hang together or assuredly we shall all hang separately."

Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 05-02-2009, 11:33 PM
Club Chopper Member
Visit my Photo Gallery
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Parsippany, NJ
Posts: 650
Not Ranked     
Quote:
Originally Posted by CENJIM View Post
Ok, I read that thread, and although it has some good information, it's still kind of Greek to me, as I don't know enough about the process in order to apply it.

When adjusting/fine-tuning the timing after you already set the static timing, do you actually physically rotate the ignition module clockwise or counter-clockwise as the engine is running in order to adjust the total timing, or do you leave it set on the static timing position, and just adjust the trimpots on the ignition module as the engine is running? According to the Ultima info on that thread, it looks like you adjust the advance curve trimpots, but if there's no degree indicators on the trimpot itself, is it just a matter of eyeing it up as far as where 26-degrees, is?

I understand that a timing light is supposed to light up when the front spark plug fires, but how do you know what degree of timing you're at without some sort of gauge?

Last edited by MikeV019; 05-02-2009 at 11:38 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2009, 12:36 AM
Merlin Hawaii's Avatar
DON'T WORRY - BE HAPPY
Visit my Photo Gallery
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Shangri-La, Hi
Posts: 5,205
Not Ranked     
Static timing is only to get the timing close enough, so that you can start the engine

You MUST then dynamically time it (with a timing light) to set the specified number of degrees of advance (I believe Ultima recommends 26* of advance)

And the only way to accurately set that 26* of advance is with a dial back timing light. Not with the trimpots



There are several threads in the archives dealing with timing motors, in general - and Ultima motors specifically



Read through some threads, and if you're still not comfortable with the info - I'd suggest having a qualified shop time it for you
__________________


"Hula Baby"

Last edited by Merlin Hawaii; 05-03-2009 at 12:39 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2009, 04:37 AM
clspht's Avatar
CC Member/Contributor
Visit my Photo Gallery
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Somewhere Freakin Cold, FU
Posts: 3,223
Not Ranked     
Motor at TDC on compression stroke.
Switches set at kick start, OEM w/ VOES
Trimpot for rear cylinder at 0.
Loosen the standoffs
Turn on ignition (LED will turn on)
SLOWLY rotate module clockwise until light goes off (Be very precise and stop the moment the light goes off)
Tighten standoffs (make sure module does not move)
Set advance trimpot to MIN.
Your done...

Timing will now be at 26 deg (which is where you want to be on the 127)
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2009, 10:18 AM
Club Chopper Member
Visit my Photo Gallery
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Parsippany, NJ
Posts: 650
Not Ranked     
Quote:
Originally Posted by clspht View Post
Motor at TDC on compression stroke.
Switches set at kick start, OEM w/ VOES
Trimpot for rear cylinder at 0.
Loosen the standoffs
Turn on ignition (LED will turn on)
SLOWLY rotate module clockwise until light goes off (Be very precise and stop the moment the light goes off)
Tighten standoffs (make sure module does not move)
Set advance trimpot to MIN.
Your done...

Timing will now be at 26 deg (which is where you want to be on the 127)
Awesome - Sounds pretty straight-forward to me.

One questions though - So it's not supposed to be set on "Race Only"? I thought if VOES wasn't being used, the green wire needs to be taped up and the switch on the ignition module is supposed to be set to "Race Only" and not "OEM w/VOES"?

Thanks guys!

Last edited by MikeV019; 05-03-2009 at 10:20 AM..
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2009, 10:25 AM
Mr Scary's Avatar
Super Moderator
Visit my Photo Gallery
Lifetime Contributor  
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Behind the curtain, OZ
Bike Year, Make, Engine: Some kind of big ass V2, Alcohaulin' Ass
Posts: 35,561
Send a message via ICQ to Mr Scary
Not Ranked     
It's a different way.


With the mod set to oem w/ voes...The mod is waiting for a ground it never will receive...cause there is no actual VOES switch and the green wire is taped off.


That sets the mod in what's called "low vacuum" mode.

With the advance set to min...it will reach 26 total advance at 2400 rpm.


Exactly what Ultima recommends.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2009, 12:26 PM
Club Chopper Member
Visit my Photo Gallery
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Parsippany, NJ
Posts: 650
Not Ranked     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Scary View Post
It's a different way.


With the mod set to oem w/ voes...The mod is waiting for a ground it never will receive...cause there is no actual VOES switch and the green wire is taped off.


That sets the mod in what's called "low vacuum" mode.

With the advance set to min...it will reach 26 total advance at 2400 rpm.


Exactly what Ultima recommends.
Ok, so keep the ignition module in "OEM w/VOES" mode with the green wire taped off, but does it need to be in kick-start mode, or is electric start better for the life of the starter?
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2009, 12:27 PM
Mr Scary's Avatar
Super Moderator
Visit my Photo Gallery
Lifetime Contributor  
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Behind the curtain, OZ
Bike Year, Make, Engine: Some kind of big ass V2, Alcohaulin' Ass
Posts: 35,561
Send a message via ICQ to Mr Scary
Not Ranked     
Don't matter...but it will start quicker in kick mode.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2009, 06:03 PM
Micahanjello's Avatar
CC Member/Contributor
Visit my Photo Gallery
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Newport Beach, CA
Bike Year, Make, Engine: 07 113 cu in S&S in a Wrench frame
Posts: 663
Not Ranked     
Mr, Scary i have a question in regards to the Crane hi-4 dual fire ignition module.

I have a 113 s&s motor with LA choppers 2 in slash cut drag pipes. I have been screwing around with my ignition timing and have read and heard various statements in regards to fine tuning this ignition system.

I have static timed it precisely with not even the slightest movement of the flywheel out from tdc.
Settings are in race , kick start mode trim pots @ full advance spark plugs autolite 4265 gapped @ .040 in.

Dial back light set at 30 degrees full advance powered by an aux battery not by running bikes battery.
I painted yellow marks on my stator as well as my inner primary. I am running a BDL enclosed belt drive.

I suppose all seems well and good at the moment and my marks on my stator and primary line up at 2500 plus rpms with a little flutter off the painted marks,

The problem im having is semi intermittent under acceleration which seems to be obviously pinging sounds similar to a piece of thin sheet metal waving in the wind.

Did i time it correctly i have read in one of gypsys posts to ground the green wire when timing this system but i did not should I have?
Should I have timed it at 28 degrees full advance instead of 30 degrees?

Scary thank you for taking the time out of your life to help all of us on cc by sharing your knowledge.

By the way if you ever make it out to Newport Beach So Cal you are always welcome in my home.
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2009, 06:13 PM
Ricky-D's Avatar
Club Chopper Member
Visit my Photo Gallery
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: W.Columbia, SC
Posts: 2,997
Not Ranked     
Micahanjello, if 28 degrees stops the pinging then that will be fine.

If not, then keep going 'til the pinging stops.

It'll save your motor!

***
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
  #12 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2009, 06:14 PM
Mr Scary's Avatar
Super Moderator
Visit my Photo Gallery
Lifetime Contributor  
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Behind the curtain, OZ
Bike Year, Make, Engine: Some kind of big ass V2, Alcohaulin' Ass
Posts: 35,561
Send a message via ICQ to Mr Scary
Not Ranked     
Actually, I've always known Gypsy to say NOT to ground the Green wire...


Anyway, Yea...I would try kickin it back 2 to make it 28 total. You don't want detonation/preignition.

However...that engine calls for 30-32.



also, if you are talking about a stumble...it could be a jetting issue at the transition from slow to main jet.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2009, 06:22 PM
clspht's Avatar
CC Member/Contributor
Visit my Photo Gallery
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Somewhere Freakin Cold, FU
Posts: 3,223
Not Ranked     
Change switch to OEM/w VOES
Go through the static timing process
When the light goes off tighten it down
Advance trimpot to MAX
You will be at 30 deg @ 2500

This method worked much better for me than being in race mode and playing with the advance trimpot...You could also try a little colder plug to help with the detonation...Autolite 4253's

Last edited by clspht; 05-03-2009 at 06:26 PM..
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2009, 06:25 PM
Mr Scary's Avatar
Super Moderator
Visit my Photo Gallery
Lifetime Contributor  
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Behind the curtain, OZ
Bike Year, Make, Engine: Some kind of big ass V2, Alcohaulin' Ass
Posts: 35,561
Send a message via ICQ to Mr Scary
Not Ranked     
Quote:
Originally Posted by clspht View Post
Change switch to OEM/w VOES
Go through the static timing process
When the light goes off tighten it down
Advance trimpot to MAX
You will be at 30 deg @ 2500

I was tell him that way...


I just don't have it in me anymore. LOL LOL LOL
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old 05-03-2009, 06:27 PM
clspht's Avatar
CC Member/Contributor
Visit my Photo Gallery
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Somewhere Freakin Cold, FU
Posts: 3,223
Not Ranked     
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Scary View Post
I was tell him that way...


I just don't have it in me anymore. LOL LOL LOL
You earned the rest after dealing with me Man...I'll carry the banner..
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On




All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:25 PM.


vBulletin skins developed by: eXtremepixels
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0

CC Policy

The representations expressed are the representations and opinions of the clubchopper.com forum members and do not necessarily reflect the opinions and viewpoints of the site owners or moderators. clubchopper.com forum members agree not to post any copyrighted material unless the copyrighted material is owned by you or have been given the expressed written consent to post. Although we do not and cannot review the messages posted and are not responsible for the content of any of these messages, we reserve the right to delete any message for any reason whatsoever. You remain solely responsible for the content of your messages, and you agree to indemnify and hold us harmless with respect to any claim based upon transmission of your message(s). For full policy, please click the "CC policy" link. Thank you for visiting the clubchopper.com
Links monetized by VigLink