Do i need to use both crank case and head breathers on a s&s 113

[7stretch4drop]

Here is what TP Engineering says about related issues, see if any of these can apply to why you are seeing excessive oil coming from the breathers.

Trouble shooting oil coming out top end of engine AND CRANK CASE PRESSURE


1) To much oil in engine case, causing crank case pressure. Like a balloon building
Pressure until it escape’s.
2) Recently change oil, possibly over filled oil tank.
Take in consideration when changing oil. You will have approx ¼ cup
Of oil left in bottom of engine case.
Know what size oil tank you have before you start filling your tank with oil.
Stock soft tail is 3-1/4 qt oil. Oil filters are like sponges they will absorb approx ¼ cup of oil. Don’t over fill because the oil level looks low.
3) Oil filter blocked
4) Oil filter mounted lines crossed hooked up backwards.
5) Wrong oil filter will cause major blow by. No after markets used here. THIS IS FOR TP ENGINES
Classic oil filter part # 63796-77A EVO oil filter 40 micron
Smart oil filter can use either 5 micron, 10 micron or 40 micron
Part # 63798-99A (5) micron filters dust
Part # 63798-99 (10) micron filters small particles
Part# 63796-77A (40) micron
6) Restricting breather bolts, bolts too small. Vent holes for breathers should be (.187). Make sure when putting extension on breather bolt holes are not Covered, Defeats the purpose.
7) Oil returning in tank, vent and return are not covered in oil. This will suck oil back into engine not allowing it to breathe properly and will cause blow by, engine will get very hot.
8) Vent line inside tank, broken
9) Poor return
10) Pinched hose
11) Collapsed line
12) Race track gaskets, torn, bubbled, or worn should be replaced.
13) Piston sealing problem, low miles engine not seated yet
14) Oil cooler too high
15) Rocker box lids are backwards. Front lid on Rear and the Rear on the Front.
16) Keep in mind if having blow by issue's even after changing gaskets or oring, unless rocker boxes cavity's, carb, etc are cleaned out with break cleaner you will have left over residue that will still blow out, eventually all blow by will be gone.

[Micahanjello]

I am curious as to the meaning of oil and vent lines being covered in oil in the tank?

Sorry Merlin you see I am ADHD and just keep going on writing.

My oil tank has a return line that comes up the side of the tank and bends at the top looking like a candy cane sort of. My vent goes up the tank to the top and is squared off at the top .

[Merlin Hawaii]

Originally Posted by Micahanjello

I am curious as to the meaning of oil and vent lines being covered in oil in the tank?.

That doesn't apply to you/your tank

On horseshoe tanks the fittings are on the bottom of the tank

And the vent and return have standpipes inside the tank

If the oil level in the tank rises above the vent standpipe, the oil then runs down the vent and sumps the crankcase

Then the excess oil blow out the breathers

Big mess

[Micahanjello]

You are absolutely right I wasn't thinking outside of my own application I have a tendency to do that sometimes.

Merlin you maybe able to answer this for me have you had any prior experience with the exhaust modification that I have installed on my bike see photo attachments in previous post.

[Merlin Hawaii]

Originally Posted by Micahanjello

Merlin you maybe able to answer this for me have you had any prior experience with the exhaust modification that I have installed on my bike see photo attachments in previous post.

If it was me, I'd take those eyebolts out of there and see how it runs now that you've got it breathing better

I'm not a big fan of those bolts, or torque cones or any kind of exhaust restrictors on big motors. And your 113" qualifies as a big motor

Yeah, I know people have been using them since the beginning of time, and I think on a 74" or 80' motor they might be ok

But not on a big motor

BTW S&S has anti reversion steps cast into the heads

And Honda had them on their 250cc and 305cc scrambler back in the '60s, but they were more for noise than performance

[yzracing26]

[quote=Merlin Hawaii;903129]

But the purpose of a one way valve (PCV) is to let the pressurized air OUT, but prevent any additional air to enter back IN the crankcase - less air in the crankcase = less pressure working AGAINST the motors normal operation = more HP and an easier running motor

So, in that sense, ANY one way valve is sufficient - the S&S plastic valve is a couple bucks - the Spyke (or Doherty) is about $100. But they both do the same thing



Never seen an S&S plastic valve, but if thats the case couldnt he just go to a local auto parts store and buy a PCV valve?

[MAKO6]

.....Yes...!

[Lorax54]

Okay, I have a little additional question. I have the Ultima 113 and was going to switch from the stock air cleaner assembly to a velocity stack and breather kit. I was assuming that I needed a breather kit, either with the two filters hanging down, or with oil line to a "y" and run it down to the bottom of the frame some where. My crankcase is vented to the oil tank (threads in the bottom with a standpipe. Does that sound correct?

[Merlin Hawaii]

Originally Posted by Lorax54

Okay, I have a little additional question. I have the Ultima 113 and was going to switch from the stock air cleaner assembly to a velocity stack and breather kit. I was assuming that I needed a breather kit, either with the two filters hanging down, or with oil line to a "y" and run it down to the bottom of the frame some where. My crankcase is vented to the oil tank (threads in the bottom with a standpipe. Does that sound correct?

Yes and No

Yes, you need a way to breathe through the hollow breather bolts in the heads (whether it's via drop down filters, or hoses, or whatever)

Technically, the vent to your oil tank is from the timing chest cavity

I don't know, specifically about Ultima, But S&S and many aftermarket motors have a plug in the back of the crankcase (next to the oil pump) that can be removed (and replaced with a fitting and hose, Crankvent etc.) to vent the pressure in the crankcase

HD eliminated that case plug when the went to a head breathing system - so you won't find it on a modern HD motor

[DrUmM@sT3r]

Originally Posted by Merlin Hawaii

Micah, I'l throw my $.02 in here too

First off, PLEASE break your posts up into separate paragraphs. My A.D.D. kicks in, and I start to get a headache if the paragraph is more than a couple sentences long



I have the Spyke crankvents on 2 of my bikes, and No, I didn't notice an appreciable difference in performance with/without

But the principle behind them appeals to me

S&S uses a one way valve on their SuperSidewinder Plus motors (11", 117", 124") because they breath through a different head breathing system than a conventional evo style motor)
But the purpose of a one way valve (PCV) is to let the pressurized air OUT, but prevent any additional air to enter back IN the crankcase - less air in the crankcase = less pressure working AGAINST the motors normal operation = more HP and an easier running motor

So, in that sense, ANY one way valve is sufficient - the S&S plastic valve is a couple bucks - the Spyke (or Doherty) is about $100. But they both do the same thing



.

Hello Merlin, I have a 2004 Texas Chopper with a 111, and you just answered my question, I lost the front base gasket, so doing a top end, my question was, “Does the 3/8 line with the PCV plastic valve coming off the head to the back of the air cleaner, allow for the head to vent into the air cleaner?” That’s the direction of the one way valve is to allow the head to vent. I believe I installed it correctly?

Thank you - you’ve always been so helpful.

Mark (Outside Vegas)