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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 11-07-2005, 08:30 AM
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127 El Bruto

Has anyone used a 127 El Bruto?
I did a search but couldn't turn pages so couldn't find the Info I was after. Anyway if you have run 1 do you like it? Also where is the best place to buy 1.
Thanks Jack
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Old 11-07-2005, 09:17 AM
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I both, use and sell El Bruto Motors. Personally, I like the 120" a little better because it is a sqaure motor (bore x stroke is the same), has a little bit lower compression ratio, the cam is not so hot, and it still has a high horse power rating to the ground.
I highly recommend getting the motor from the factory so it comes with a factory warranty rather than having it assembled at an individual dealer's shop.
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Old 11-07-2005, 09:36 AM
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Hi Phantom,
I sent you an e-mail today asking for a price on the 127 if you think the 120 is better maybe you can give me a price on that to.
Thanks Jack
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Old 11-07-2005, 01:09 PM
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I have a 127 in my bike....its great....have a 120 in my friends, its real good to....i can get them as well....polsihed, black&chrome or natural....what are you after?
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Old 11-07-2005, 07:57 PM
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I have owned a ultima 127" for 10 months now with about 4500 miles on the motor. No problems yet and I run my motors hard every time I ride. My buddy has a 120" they both are close performance wise. Where I have to be conservative in my timing curve or i get pinging during the hot summer days down here in florida, he runs a more aggressive curve and runs the bike on regular unleaded no problems. The 127" has a 10.2 to 1 CR where the 120ci has a 9.8 to 1 CR. The 113", 120" , and 127" ALL use the same cam specs. 264/268 dur .580/.625 lift(with a 1.625 Ratio rocker. these motors use a 1.7 ratio rocker!
Phantom is right about making sure about getting a factory motors all the horror stories I personally seen and heard were from assembled at the shop from parts motors. Out of the box the 127" you should get about 129hp 133tq with the stock carb. and a decent exhaust. To get the factory rating you need a 48mm mikuni or a zippers stage III Super G and a Borzilla or Hooker stepped exhaust. The motor pulls real hard from 2900 to 5800 I plan on going to a bob wood cam and a 48 mikuni.(gotta love that torque)with a little clean up work should be close to the 150 mark.
As far as buying a 120 or 127 IMHO if i had to do it over again I would get 120"its a little cheaper, no knocking or pinging on the hotter days, and peformance very close to the 127" I got mine for 4800.00 delivered.
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Old 11-07-2005, 08:05 PM
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where did you get it for that price
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Old 11-07-2005, 08:22 PM
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Old 11-07-2005, 08:28 PM
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I got the 127, I like it alot. No problems yet, but not that many miles yet either.
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Old 11-07-2005, 08:35 PM
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Not tryin to start a problem here, but Phantom is right about the cams.
The 127 cam has more duration than the 120.
127ci- 264 duration, .625 lift
120ci-252 duration, .625 lift
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Old 11-08-2005, 06:21 AM
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Re: 127 El Bruto

Quote:
Originally posted by Action
Has anyone used a 127 El Bruto?
I did a search but couldn't turn pages so couldn't find the Info I was after. Anyway if you have run 1 do you like it? Also where is the best place to buy 1.
Thanks Jack
action, i apologize up front for being a little negative, but i have to say that i'm not sure the ultima el brutos are such a good idea. i have nothing but wonderful things to say for the company... but the motors left much to be desired, and there are many who feel as i do. some are even members of this forum (myself, lv2ridemyhd), others are among the most respected engine builders around (kendall johnson).

with the numerous problems i had with my engine, i can still find good things to say about the people who dealt with the warranty (they're great), and also about how the engine ran (my 127 hauled freakin' ass, much stronger than my S&S 124). unfortunately, it just didn't want to hold together.

also, as you can see, there are plenty who have had nothing but good experiences with their el brutos. however, if i were in your shoes, i'd read a few of the following threads, and maybe PM or call others who have had some troubles. you'd find that many people, like myself, have lost a ton of riding time and labor trying to hunt down problems with their engines, to the point that many of us wish we'd not gotten them.

for what it's worth.... i feel guilty being negative about anybody's product, but i'd also feel guilty for not saying anything in this case, as i certainly wish i'd been better informed.

some links:

http://www.clubchopper.com/t26689.html (straight from kendall johnson's shop)

http://www.clubchopper.com/t29444.html

actually, i'm having trouble with the website (trying to pull up all of my posts from my profile page? cannot get pages 2 and 3 of older posts??), so if you're interested, maybe you can get it to work. further, i'd talk to some of the people i mentioned above, simply because people who have had bad experiences may be a bit hesitant to speak up about it. i know i am, but i'm doing it anyway because i wish i knew before i bought the engine, what i know now.
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Old 11-08-2005, 10:39 AM
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Poop, you post up your problems with your motor, and I understand your frustration. I also understand every one elses frustration with their problems. But Midwest also takes care of it. And I also know that every motor manufacturer has had their fair share of problems too! And as far as KJC goes think of what they are trying to do with these things! They are beating these things to piss! And oil leaks and gasket problems are (I'M afraid) nature of the beast with V2 engines. Not to say that these problems that you and some of these other guys have had are les troubeling and cause for concern, but I think of all of the thousands of happy customers also. Dollar for dollar value it's hard to beat and for someone like myself who cant afford to throw around a couple of thousand dollars to buy a higher quality or more expensive motor, these will have to do. I sugest that anydody buying one of these motors defenatlly do their homework and make an informed decision based on that. Even if a customer buying an ultima 120/127 or whatever size, replacing some of the problem parts "before breakage" is still cheaper in some circomestances.

One more note, I think if you polled all ultima engine owners and did the same for every other engine manufacturer then found the failure ratio you might be surprised to find them fairly close to each other? Untill you have hard info on that and can honestly say that these are not worth it then I am going to put my money on value! My .02!!
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Old 11-08-2005, 10:46 AM
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Question

Quote:
Not tryin to start a problem here, but Phantom is right about the cams.
Well MrScary i would love to stand corrected on the cam specs that you and phantom say are wrong, so i scanned the spec sheet that came with the motor and inserted it below for all to see. Let me know where you got your info from and lets see the real facts not hearsay.

It is quite evident that this forum is Pro S&S and there is nothing wrong with that, except when people lump specific brand motors as being unreliable or problem ridden because of their bias. ALL brands have problem motors, what i would like to see is from each manufactuer is the total production, the % of warranty returns and repairs, and the probable cause of each failure. All the manufacters out there have this info at their finger tips. Are they going to release this to the general public? FAT CHANCE!
Back to Utima motors here, a direct quote from KillerKlown
Quote:
* The engines use parts from several third party vendors which Ultima has no control over and we at KJC are concerned about the use of some of these products in a high horsepower engine.
Read into the quote carefully and see if it makes sense to you. First of all pretend your the CEO of Ultima(midwest Motorcycle supply inc is one of the biggest aftermaket distributors around)your building your own line of V twin motors. Your "third party vendors" are supplying you with bogus parts and your motors are coming back costing your company money. And you HAVE NO CONTROL? THE FUCK YOU DON"T. you probably have over a millon dollars invested in the motor design and your going to let some no name vendor fuck up your namebrand. Yea right. The likely
problem is "third party shops" building kit motors and passing them off as factory motors using bullshit parts. And I have personally seen 2 of these kind of motors.
Another quote from Dale Hood aka KILLERKLOWN i find interesting.
*We have noticed that many of these engines leak oil at the gasket surfaces no matter what you do to seal said surface.
Yet this quote is right out of hot bike magazine.
Quote:
"They were quiet, smooth, and didn't leak, out of the box," Kendall reported. "For a crate motor, the polishing wasn't bad and the quality of the casting enhanced the polishing finish."
Whos right on this one Dale, you or the Boss?? And where EXACTLY was the motor leaking from? Yeah, one morning after a hard 550 run I noticed a oil spot under my ride. Thought I had "ONE OF THOSE LEAKY ULTIMA MOTORS" looked under the frame and saw oil dripping from the case. Know what was? Oil had dripped from the air cleaner down between lifter blocks wrapped around the front cylinder down behind the oil filter to the bottom of the case to the ground to a spot the size of a quarter. Must be one of those mysterious unstoppable oil leaks ultima is known for!
Another quote from hot bike magazine from Kendall.

Quote:
"The initial cam profile was good," Kendall said. "There was good throttle response throughout the 1,400 brutal miles we put on it before teardown. Some 900-1,200 miles were spent at 5,500 rpms or more. There was the normal slight flywheel shift but no out-of-the-ordinary wear." Kendall tests and modifies engines to create a number of high-performance kits and full engine configurations from stock to 145 inches. "I have a big-inch engine with 52,000 miles on it," Kendall said. "It consistently puts out 141 hp and gives the rider 49 mpg."
Well I guess this says it all about Ultima big inch motors. And I believe Kendall is a man of his word and meant what he said. I suspect that the reason he no longer works with ultima is more political than through any fault in the design of their motors. Namely that if he went ahead with the next article in hot bike mag. with the testing of ultima performance tricks that S&S would cut him off as a dealer and he is not willing to risk their business relationship. Ill let you be the judge.
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Old 11-08-2005, 11:06 AM
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Old 11-08-2005, 11:11 AM
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the 3rd party vendors are asia, to keep the pricing the way it is...they cannot switch to the standard of parts required for a high performance application

rocker boxes/cam covers/rocker arms/pushrods/lifters

you deduct the price of what they use, and then add the price of jims/s&s/delkron...whoever....you end up with a motor that costs the same as a s&s/tp

because they want the price to remain where it is...they have no control over the vendors, because there is no american company that makes that stuff for those prices.

as far as the "crate motor" thing... isnt he talking about ultima motors, didnt he mention them specifically, and not the el bruto line of high performance engines?
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Old 11-08-2005, 11:32 AM
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My El Bruto Spec sheet says:
120" El Bruto Motor
Camshaft: 252 Duration .625 Lift
127"
Camshaft: 264 Duration .625 Lift

I just looked in the Mid-West catalog and it says the same thing my spec sheet says. Obviously something is strange here.

I am completely confused about fullauto... are you for or against the Ultima motors...
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