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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-18-2018, 02:27 PM
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Starting issues with jackshaft

Having issues with starting. I have a Primo primary with and S&S 113. When I try to start it sometimes it just clicks and clicks. I have been told something with the jackshaft and tightening it and the starter bolts. The jackshaft is just not fully engaging when I press the starter sometimes. I have tried tightening the jackshaft to about 14lbs and then tightening the starter bolts slowly. Seems to work for a few starts and then it seems to bind up sometimes. Is it something to do with that spring in the jackshaft?
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Old 04-18-2018, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheedro View Post
Having issues with starting. I have a Primo primary with and S&S 113. When I try to start it sometimes it just clicks and clicks. I have been told something with the jackshaft and tightening it and the starter bolts. The jackshaft is just not fully engaging when I press the starter sometimes. I have tried tightening the jackshaft to about 14lbs and then tightening the starter bolts slowly. Seems to work for a few starts and then it seems to bind up sometimes. Is it something to do with that spring in the jackshaft?
Has it always done it? Was it ever better?
If this is a new starting system, several points to consider.
1 Strong and healthy battery-at least 300-310 CCA. Weak battery( with phony 12.8 V charge) won,t do.
2 good cables, the thicker the better. Negative better be attached to one of the starter mounting bolts if the battery is in a typical location.
3 compression releases are must. I machined in my heads because my early s&s 113 with 11:1 compression didn,t have the releases
4 alignment: horizontal alignment of jack shaft- the resting distance between the ring gear and JS is about .125-.150”.
I have an identical setup. Huge marina cables ( gauge 2/0 or even 1/0) and relatively small lithium battery.
SSTX20HQ-FP Scorpion Stinger LiFePo4 Quad Terminal Extreme High Output Battery. I had no room for a regular lead battery.
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Last edited by STEINBVG; 04-18-2018 at 06:42 PM..
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Old 04-18-2018, 05:37 PM
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Try this several times with your spark plugs out, this may tell you if you have a symptom like Stein described..If it turns over every time with plugs out then it is battery or low power etc. issue..if your jack shaft is mis aligned then the jack shaft should still spin when it hits the ring gear and bounces off...but if it is en gauging the ring gear and just clicks, then low power..or too much compression..or starter failure.. Next time it binds, pull the plugs and see if it frees it up.
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Last edited by Shovel52; 04-18-2018 at 05:41 PM..
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Old 04-19-2018, 04:44 AM
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Cables are good. New battery. The Jack Shaft gear is not engaging into the large gear so I dont think it is a compression issue or engine issue. This only happens about 1/2 the time. If I just push the starter button a few times it finally engages and starts. I was thinking a bad solenoid? Or is there a way to tell if the jack shaft is worn and in need of replacement?
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Old 04-19-2018, 01:34 PM
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Shouldn't the jack shaft spin even thought it doesn't engage the ring gear? How hard is it to get to your solenoid? Pull the cover, two screws... and depress the plunger by hand a few times, maybe you have bad contacts...dirty or burned..I have had to do it twice..
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Old 04-19-2018, 05:24 PM
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The other thing is if any doubt in solenoid or remote starter button/ relay they can by bypassed by manual solenoid cover button either factory installed on Ultima like starters or retrofitted aftermarket for about $15- like this. https://www.ebay.com/itm/PYRAMID-STA...!US!-1&vxp=mtr
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VITALY.
SORRY FOR THE UPPER CASE. I AIN'T YELLING. I JUST MAKE TOO MANY TYPOS IN THE LOWER.

113"s&s, Walz softail 2000/2012 prostreet
96"s&s, Daytec dyna/ softail hybrid, 1998/2010 chopper
127"Ultima, Chassis Design rigid 2013 bobber
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Old 04-20-2018, 06:07 PM
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Sounds just like the problem I had with my new money pit. By the time I got it, the remote switch didn't work. I had to use the button on the solenoid. A new starter fixed that problem.
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Old 04-20-2018, 07:56 PM
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A new starter fixed mine too, twice was enough..acted like the battery was going bad..so it was definitely a bad starter motor, and not just the solenoid, like the first two times..
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Last edited by Shovel52; 04-20-2018 at 08:02 PM..
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Old 04-21-2018, 04:31 PM
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I had similar issues with my 2008 Softail.
Sometimes it would start and run with no problems, sometimes it would just click as if the battery was flat and sometimes it'd turn over but really slugish and slow until the battery would just give up.
Sometimes I'd press the start button and loose all power to the bike, then after a few minutes it would power up again as if there was a circuit breaker that reset itself when it cooled down.
I bought a new battery thinking that was my problem but still had the same symptoms.
It turned out to be the crimp lug on the main cable that bolts to the solenoid and go's to the maxi fuse, it had corroded and broken but being hidden under the oil tank and covered with a rubber terminal cap I never found it untill I stripped the bike down to remove the starter motor so I could get it overhauled and rewound.
After renewing the crimp and nailing it all back together it has started perfectly every time
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Old 04-22-2018, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EdCase View Post
I had similar issues with my 2008 Softail.
Sometimes it would start and run with no problems, sometimes it would just click as if the battery was flat and sometimes it'd turn over but really slugish and slow until the battery would just give up.
Sometimes I'd press the start button and loose all power to the bike, then after a few minutes it would power up again as if there was a circuit breaker that reset itself when it cooled down.
I bought a new battery thinking that was my problem but still had the same symptoms.
It turned out to be the crimp lug on the main cable that bolts to the solenoid and go's to the maxi fuse, it had corroded and broken but being hidden under the oil tank and covered with a rubber terminal cap I never found it untill I stripped the bike down to remove the starter motor so I could get it overhauled and rewound.
After renewing the crimp and nailing it all back together it has started perfectly every time
This is a great point. Any loose, poor contact can make electric system play pickabooo- perform inconsistently. Thus going over all the connections is the first and easiest thing to do in the suspected circuit, before blaming the components.
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VITALY.
SORRY FOR THE UPPER CASE. I AIN'T YELLING. I JUST MAKE TOO MANY TYPOS IN THE LOWER.

113"s&s, Walz softail 2000/2012 prostreet
96"s&s, Daytec dyna/ softail hybrid, 1998/2010 chopper
127"Ultima, Chassis Design rigid 2013 bobber
120"Ultima, Kraft Tech rigid 2014 bobber
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Old 04-22-2018, 03:15 PM
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An intermitant electrical problem like described can the worse kind of nightmare to encounter.
When I worked the oil field as a tech, I would have to make 6 and 7 hour boat ride s to the rigs to repair the equipment..When I would make my adjustment and thought I had it fixed, then another 6 hours home only to get a call and turn around and go right back...doing the same thing.....

A lot of people think that when the solenoid throws the jack shaft out and it just clicks, that it is not engaging the ring gear...but think..when the jack shaft reaches the ring gear the splines have locked the starter, and if the contacts in the solenoid are good, at that point they are closed and it transfers battery current to the starter motor..the jack shaft is going to be spinning and you will hear it grinding against the ring gear..
if it is not spinning then probably the contacts...high current ,high stress.... about 75 amps..
running through the contacts..

Easiest to just clean the contacts.., rebuilding the solenoid is a pain..If this is all good then maybe a problem like Ed Case just described..
How ever , one more point..If the jack shaft is so misaligned that it won't engage the ring gear at all, then it is possible that the contacts might not be closed at that point, and no starter.....I find this hard to believe that a jack shaft could be that far out of alignment...I guess it's possible..In this case though Cheedro is saying that it does engage some time so it cant be out of alignment...
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Last edited by Shovel52; 04-22-2018 at 03:42 PM..
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Old 04-23-2018, 07:04 AM
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Cheedro, just adding my experience from rebuilding a 2004 Brute IV 3" belt drive. Assuming you run an open belt primary.
a) All that STEINBVG stated is true and must be observed for high comp engines
b) have a look at the starter gear for wear at the teeth
c) have look at the starter support housing, there is a sintered bronce bushing supporting the outer end of the jackshaft. It tends to wear at the bottom and then bends the jackshaft. It's an 7/8 x ¾ x ¾“ (OD x ID x L) imperial size bushing, e.g. form Oilite for a few bucks. Easy to replace if you have access to a press.

I ended up replacing both, the complete jackshaft with gear from Primo and the bearing. No issue with the since then.
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