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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 06-22-2013, 10:10 PM
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Anyone running JayBrake 6 piston calipers.

My Bourget came with the jay brake 6 piston deals and they are WEAK. I've degreased the rotors and bled them. The lever is Rock solid but they just don't have much bite and take a lot of pressure to stop the bike. I'm sure its mostly the pads.

I was going to put some sintered metal pads on it like I run on my sportbikes but I don't know if the rotors will stand up to them. They look like PM full floaters with an Iron breaking surface. I might runs some EBC carbon tech ones if I find out the rotors will not stand up to the harder HH pads.

Just curious what others experience with them are and what you though.

Last edited by bugman53; 06-22-2013 at 11:21 PM..
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Old 06-22-2013, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugman53 View Post
My Bourget came with the jay brake 6 piston deals and they are WEAK. I've degreased the rotors and bled them. The lever is Rock solid but they just don't have much bit a take a lot of pressure to stop the bike. I'm sure its mostly the pads.

I was going to put some sintered metal pads on it like I run on my sportbikes but I don't know if the rotors will stand up to them. They look like PM full floaters with an Iron breaking surface. I might runs some EBC carbon tech ones if I find out the rotors will not stand up to the harder HH pads.

Just curious what others experience with them are and what you though.
I,m pretty confident that with the stiff lever ( and perhaps barely moving I would
add )you have a situation of too big MC FOR THE CALIPERS.
How many calipers in the front and the rear. What are the sizes of your masters.
I have dual 6 piston jay brakes in the front and one 4 piston in the rear.


The front ones work great with 3/4 master . The rear has 5/8 master and it,s stiff, but works . I would be better with 9/16 master, would give softer, more gradual and finallly better leveraged brake.
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Old 06-22-2013, 11:34 PM
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There is just one front and rear. I do not know the size of the MC. I am finding out that these customs do not have the engineering that other bikes have. It seems they just stick parts on without fully tuning the systems to optimum.

Too big of a MC piston would make perfect since. I wonder if I can machine a sleeve on my lathe and reduce the piston bore to a smaller diameter. I would guess the other option would be add another front rotor. That would cost close to $800 buck by the time it is said and done.

I just took the rear pads off and they are sintered metal, I bead blasted them and soaked them in brake clean and degreased the rotor again. We will see if it is better on the rear. I can always extend the brake arm to give it more leverage on the rear that would not be a problem. The front gets harder though.
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Old 06-23-2013, 05:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugman53 View Post
There is just one front and rear. I do not know the size of the MC. I am finding out that these customs do not have the engineering that other bikes have. It seems they just stick parts on without fully tuning the systems to optimum.

Too big of a MC piston would make perfect since. I wonder if I can machine a sleeve on my lathe and reduce the piston bore to a smaller diameter. I would guess the other option would be add another front rotor. That would cost close to $800 buck by the time it is said and done.

I just took the rear pads off and they are sintered metal, I bead blasted them and soaked them in brake clean and degreased the rotor again. We will see if it is better on the rear. I can always extend the brake arm to give it more leverage on the rear that would not be a problem. The front gets harder though.
Machine and hone the bore in a sleeve to 5/8? Get a rebuild kit for 5/8, If you can - by all means. Might work.
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113"s&s, Walz softail 2000/2012 prostreet
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127"Ultima, Chassis Design rigid 2013 bobber
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Old 06-23-2013, 04:31 PM
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It is a jay brake MC also ill pull the piston one day and see what size is in her. One of the problems is the MC is to close to the grip so I am grabbing it closer to the pivot giving less leverage. The way the handlebars are setup I cant move it to the left so I am grabbing farther out on the lever though. That would help but I think you hit the nail on the head with the piston being to big. It should be no problem to machine a sleeve on the lathe and install a smaller piston.

I will update in a few weeks when I get into the front brakes. I'm still fighting with carb jetting and oils leaks right now.
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Old 06-23-2013, 05:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugman53 View Post
It is a jay brake MC also ill pull the piston one day and see what size is in her. One of the problems is the MC is to close to the grip so I am grabbing it closer to the pivot giving less leverage. The way the handlebars are setup I cant move it to the left so I am grabbing farther out on the lever though. That would help but I think you hit the nail on the head with the piston being to big. It should be no problem to machine a sleeve on the lathe and install a smaller piston.

I will update in a few weeks when I get into the front brakes. I'm still fighting with carb jetting and oils leaks right now.
I found this page somewhere, great explanation of ratios of MC TO CALIPERS to have great leveraging on the brakes:

Front Master Cylinder Ratio Chart
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VITALY.
SORRY FOR THE UPPER CASE. CAN'T SEE SHIT.
113"s&s, Walz softail 2000/2012 prostreet
96"s&s, Daytec dyna/ softail hybrid, 1998/2010 chopper
127"Ultima, Chassis Design rigid 2013 bobber
120"Ultima, Kraft Tech FL 2014/2019 bobber
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Old 06-23-2013, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugman53 View Post
It is a jay brake MC also ill pull the piston one day and see what size is in her. One of the problems is the MC is to close to the grip so I am grabbing it closer to the pivot giving less leverage. The way the handlebars are setup I cant move it to the left so I am grabbing farther out on the lever though. That would help but I think you hit the nail on the head with the piston being to big. It should be no problem to machine a sleeve on the lathe and install a smaller piston.

I will update in a few weeks when I get into the front brakes. I'm still fighting with carb jetting and oils leaks right now.
I found this page somewhere, great explanation of ratios of MC TO CALIPERS to have great leveraging on the brakes:

Front Master Cylinder Ratio Chart
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VITALY.
SORRY FOR THE UPPER CASE. CAN'T SEE SHIT.
113"s&s, Walz softail 2000/2012 prostreet
96"s&s, Daytec dyna/ softail hybrid, 1998/2010 chopper
127"Ultima, Chassis Design rigid 2013 bobber
120"Ultima, Kraft Tech FL 2014/2019 bobber
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Old 04-07-2015, 06:58 PM
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I think you were right on the mark STEINBVG I finaly got around to doing some more in dept work on the breaks. I took the front lever off and greased it up good and the front feel pretty good. Not sportbike good but seem about right.

The rear on the other hand I just installed a new rotor and HH pads, (the old floating rotor started to rattle and got loose). And even after that the rear pedal is ROCK solid but you haft to stomp it to get hardly any breaking power. From what i can tell has a 3/4 bore! It is the KELSEY-HAYES STYLE I did not pull the piston but measuring the bore where the c clip is measures 3/4. I think i need a 5/8 bore MC. That would explain the rear breaking problems.

I Am going to pull the piston here in a little while and see for sure.
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Old 04-07-2015, 11:04 PM
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Sure enough it has a 3/4 rear master cylinder, I just ordered a 5/8 bore master I think that will take care of it.
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Old 04-08-2015, 12:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugman53 View Post
sure enough it has a 3/4 rear master cylinder, i just ordered a 5/8 bore master i think that will take care of it.
yep, i saw the kh style masters on ebay for 45-55 bucks. Either 3/4 or 5/8cheap asian aftermarket, but it works just fine.
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SORRY FOR THE UPPER CASE. CAN'T SEE SHIT.
113"s&s, Walz softail 2000/2012 prostreet
96"s&s, Daytec dyna/ softail hybrid, 1998/2010 chopper
127"Ultima, Chassis Design rigid 2013 bobber
120"Ultima, Kraft Tech FL 2014/2019 bobber
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Old 04-09-2015, 09:10 PM
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I got the new rear master cylinder installed. I did not get a chance to take her for a ride, I did the math and the 5/8 v 3/4 the 5/8 should have 31% more line pressure for the same amount of pedal pressure. The pedal is still stiff but its not like standing on concrete anymore it feels about right. When the new pads bed in ill update on the improvement it made.
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Old 04-10-2015, 03:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bugman53 View Post
I got the new rear master cylinder installed. I did not get a chance to take her for a ride, I did the math and the 5/8 v 3/4 the 5/8 should have 31% more line pressure for the same amount of pedal pressure. The pedal is still stiff but its not like standing on concrete anymore it feels about right. When the new pads bed in ill update on the improvement it made.
That,s why harley went for 9/16 for rear, slightly softer than 5/8.
I just wonder, how come Bourget didn,t put the right size master on? Or was it changed afterwards?
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VITALY.
SORRY FOR THE UPPER CASE. CAN'T SEE SHIT.
113"s&s, Walz softail 2000/2012 prostreet
96"s&s, Daytec dyna/ softail hybrid, 1998/2010 chopper
127"Ultima, Chassis Design rigid 2013 bobber
120"Ultima, Kraft Tech FL 2014/2019 bobber

Last edited by STEINBVG; 04-10-2015 at 07:17 PM..
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Old 04-10-2015, 06:37 PM
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Wa..hooo... It actually has decent rear brakes! It feels like haft the pressure required then before. The new pads have not even seated yet. Its got a long brake pedal and the modulation is perfect. Just light pressure coming to a normal stop is all that is required, hard on the pedal does not lock up the rear.

I have no idea why Bourget put a 3/4" rear MC on her. I am finding that these bikes are more just assembled so they work with more effort put into style then engineering everything to work together. They used all top quality parts but the little details were overlooked sometimes.
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Old 05-18-2015, 08:31 AM
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Bourget Black Jack Joker

I believe I have the same problem with my rear brakes. I have a 3/4 MC and a Jaybrake 6 piston caliper and I have a very hard pedal and little travel and it take alot of foot pressure to slow bike down. Its factory from Bourget I guess on my bike. I'm thinking of going with the 5/8 MC from Jaybrake, is that the one you used? Was it that much of improvement over the 3/4 MC to switch. jaybrake MC is over $200. Thanks
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Old 05-18-2015, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtl-ace View Post
i believe i have the same problem with my rear brakes. I have a 3/4 mc and a jaybrake 6 piston caliper and i have a very hard pedal and little travel and it take alot of foot pressure to slow bike down. Its factory from bourget i guess on my bike. I'm thinking of going with the 5/8 mc from jaybrake, is that the one you used? Was it that much of improvement over the 3/4 mc to switch. Jaybrake mc is over $200. Thanks
why not kh harley replica chromed master under 60 bucks from ebay? Every one of them i had bought worked very well.

9/16 bore might be even more powerful , effortless and 'feely', but i have 4 piston jay brake. Perhaps 6 piston will do just fine with 5/8.
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SORRY FOR THE UPPER CASE. CAN'T SEE SHIT.
113"s&s, Walz softail 2000/2012 prostreet
96"s&s, Daytec dyna/ softail hybrid, 1998/2010 chopper
127"Ultima, Chassis Design rigid 2013 bobber
120"Ultima, Kraft Tech FL 2014/2019 bobber
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