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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2008, 12:11 PM
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You people only hear what you want to hear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bosco Warden
OBAMA SAYS U.S. CONSTITUTION IS THE FUNDAMENTAL FLAW OF THIS NATION
No, Bosco, what he said was, "It reflected the fundamental flaw of this country that continues to this day". And what was that flaw? That its ok to treat one group of people one way and another group another way. Let's face it the constitution was not a perfect document. Other nations that have reformed their governments over the last 232 years have been able to look to our constitution as an example. The founding fathers didn't have such an example so they made some mistakes. They weren't perfect. With our constitution and experience to learn from other countries were able in some cases make improvements that more capably reflected the will of their people. Instant run off voting would be one such improvement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by GrayRider
I read the transcript. He believes the courts failed to redistribute the wealth to blacks during the civil rights movement.
Gray the problem when conservatives read or listen to anything is that they bring with them a biased mind set and that reflects on their interpretations. It doesn't help that until recently Obama had a problem common among the very educated. In this interview he is speaking at a college level and using terminology that is not common to most people. Please let me translate this for you and if you like point out where you disagree with my translations.

Quote:
If you look at the victories and failures of the civil rights movement and its litigation strategy in the court I think where it succeeded was to vest formal rights in previously dispossessed peoples so that I would now have the right to vote, I would now be able to sit at a lunch counter and order. And as long as I pay for it I’d be OK.
Thanks to the civil rights movement blacks can vote and eat at lunch counters.

Quote:
But the Supreme Court never ventured into the issues of redistribution of wealth. And (unclear) more basic issues of political and economic justice in this society.
The Supreme Court never talked about economic fairness. They never looked into whether anything should be done to give those who were victim of injustice any help rising from their disadvantaged positions. Obama is not saying that they should have done so. He simply says that they didn’t.

Quote:
And to that extent as radical as I think people try to characterize the Warren court it wasn’t that radical.
Quote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Court

The Warren Court (1953-1969) represents a period in the history of the Supreme Court of the United States that was marked by one of the starkest and most dramatic changes in judicial power and philosophy. Led by Chief Justice Earl Warren, the Court expanded civil rights, liberties, the judicial power, and the federal governmental power in ways previously unseen.[1] At the same time heralded and criticized for its activism in bringing an end to segregation, incorporating the bill of rights, ending staff-sanctioned, mandatory school prayer, and other controversial decisions, the period is recognized as a high point in judicial power that has receded ever since, but with a substantial continuing impact.[2][3]
Some people might say that the Warren Court was “radical” for addressing these issues. Obama doesn’t think it was “radical”.

Quote:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/radical
extreme, esp. as regards change from accepted or traditional forms
Why not? He continues…

Quote:
It didn’t break free from the essential constraints that were placed by the founding fathers in the constitution.
They didn’t break away from accepted or traditional forms. What forms?

Quote:
At least as its been interpreted, and the Warren court interpreted it in the same way, that generally the constitution is a charter of negative liberties that says what the states can’t do, says what the federal government can’t do to you.
The Warren Court upheld that the Constitution says what the government cannot do to you. In other words we have a “Bill of Rights”.

Quote:
But it doesn’t say what the federal government or the state government must do on your behalf.
The Constitution doesn’t say that the government has to do anything for you.

Quote:
And that hasn’t shifted
That hasn’t changed.

Quote:
and one of the, I think, the tragedies of the civil rights movement was because the civil rights movement became so court focused I think that there was a tendency to lose track of the political and community organizing activities on the ground
Obama thinks it was a tragedy that the civil rights movement was so focused on the court that they didn’t pay enough attention to what the community can do for itself.

Quote:
that are able to put together the actual coalitions of power through which you bring about redistributive change.
Like registering people to vote for leaders who work on behalf of the people and not just Wall Street. Like opening drug rehab centers, or day care centers, or Big Brothers and Sisters organizations, or the Boy Scouts, or basically any community based organization that helps people improve their situation.

Quote:
And in some ways we still suffer from that.
No translation needed.

A caller then asks “Is it too late for that kind of reparative work economically and is (the court) the right place for it to take place or would it be legislative at this point?

Quote:
Obama responds, “Maybe I’m showing my bias here as a legislator as well as a law professor but I’m not optimistic about bringing about major redistributive change through the courts.
Obama doesn’t think the courts are the right place to go to make changes that give more people economic opportunity. Why not?

Quote:
The institution just isn’t structured that way. You just look at very rare examples where, during the desegregation era, the court was willing to, for example, order changes that cost money to a local school district
Why not is because it didn’t work out too well. In one case a court ordered changes that cost money to a local school district. What happened?

Quote:
and the court was very uncomfortable with it. It was hard to manage. It was hard to figure out. You start getting into all sorts of separation of powers issues in terms of the court monitoring or engaging in a process that essentially is administrative and takes a lot of time. The court’s just not very good at it.
The court had problems when they ordered a school district to spend money because the courts aren’t good administrators. They don’t make good managers. They have to draw a line between what the court should be doing and what they shouldn’t be doing.

Quote:
and politically its just very hard to legitimize opinions from the court in that regard.
Obama doesn’t think its legitimate for the courts to be involved in these types of activities.

Quote:
So I think that although you can craft theoretical justifications for it legally
You could make up excuses to do it

Quote:
I think any three of us sitting here can come up with a rationale for bringing about economic change through the courts… (the editor cuts off the rest of the statement)
And its no surprise that the editor cut it here because Obama probably went on to say where he thinks the legitimate place to make changes is. And where would that be? Exactly where he said earlier.

Quote:
and one of the, I think, the tragedies of the civil rights movement was because the civil rights movement became so court focused I think that there was a tendency to lose track of the political and community organizing activities on the ground
Obama thinks it was a tragedy that the civil rights movement was so focused on the court that they didn’t pay enough attention to what the community can do for itself.

Quote:
that are able to put together the actual coalitions of power through which you bring about redistributive change.
Like registering people to vote for leaders who work on behalf of the people and not just Wall Street. Like opening drug rehab centers, or day care centers, or Big Brothers and Sisters organizations, or the Boy Scouts, or basically any community based organization that helps people improve their situation.

So now that you have it in English instead of Professorese kindly tell me what part of any of this you disagree with. The whole thing boiled down to one sentence would be, "People shouldn't expect the courts to do for them what they need to do for themselves and for their communities." Now who has a problem with that?
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Last edited by Devils Advocate; 10-28-2008 at 12:55 PM..
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2008, 12:25 PM
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Hey DA, I'm waiting for the end of the world here ok, dont fuck it up.

This is make or break time, I am betting on the people. Not sure why but its all I got.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2008, 01:11 PM
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The Warren Court 1953-1969. During McCarthyism late '40s - late 50's.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2008, 02:01 PM
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I guess 2008 was our last independence Day..

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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2008, 02:24 PM
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Thank you for condescendingly attempting to enlighten me. I understood perfectly what the man said. He's a Marxist, and now there's talks in his campaign about a creating a second Bill of Rights.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2008, 05:31 PM
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Second Bill of Rights? That sounds pretty ridiculous coming from a guy who voted TWICE for the President who called the Constitution a "God damned piece of paper".

So EXACTLY which part of my translation do you think I got wrong and what do you think that portion actually means. How do you get "Obama says Constitution does not give government enough power" out of any of that?
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Old 10-28-2008, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devils Advocate
Second Bill of Rights? That sounds pretty ridiculous coming from a guy who voted TWICE for the President who called the Constitution a "God damned piece of paper".

So EXACTLY which part of my translation do you think I got wrong and what do you think that portion actually means. How do you get "Obama says Constitution does not give government enough power" out of any of that?
2nd Bill of Rights.


First you're condescending, then you presume to know who I've voted for...to be fair though, you're right on that part...however presumptuous.

Obama's comments, clearly indicated that he believed that the courts failed to pay reparations and redistribute wealth to blacks. He further indicated that they were constrained by the Constitution.

Huessin is a Marxist.

"To avoid being mistaken for a sellout, I chose my friends carefully," "The more politically active black students. The foreign students. The Chicanos. The Marxist professors and structural feminists." Obama, the Democratic presidential candidate wrote in his memoir, "Dreams From My Father."
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Old 10-28-2008, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devils Advocate
You people only hear what you want to hear.
And you fail to recognize any fact that may discredit this Socialist.

Remember the mantra closing...
Hail Obama, Hail Obama, Hail Obama
It is required now. The black power salute will be added and required later.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2008, 10:18 PM
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That's a nice paraphrase if you understand what a double-tongued deceiving lawyer has to say to those of us that own pitch forks! I am college educated. I still think he is lying to everyone. Obama makes his conversations thick and confusing. His associations with terrorist and not admitting to it, makes his words "full of holes." He is in it for himself and not country. Why else do you think these "senate suits" write books about themselves. Their salary and retirement isn't enough for the short time they serve; they want to be mega millionairs through self glorification. Lincoln was for country --through the abolishment of slavery for all men. Obama is a fraud! When he loses, lets hope he shuts up and sits down like Kerry and Clinton.

60rodder
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2008, 10:32 PM
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Well one thing is for damned sure. Obama couldn't possibly do a worse job than Bush and McCain wants more of the same. Unless you people are in the $250,000 a year income bracket or higher you are arguing that your tax cuts should be given to somebody else. If you are in that income bracket perhaps you can explain how you plan to remain in that bracket without any customers coming into your place of business.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 10-28-2008, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 60rodder
That's a nice paraphrase if you understand what a double-tongued deceiving lawyer has to say to those of us that own pitch forks! I am college educated. I still think he is lying to everyone. Obama makes his conversations thick and confusing. His associations with terrorist and not admitting to it, makes his words "full of holes." He is in it for himself and not country. Why else do you think these "senate suits" write books about themselves. Their salary and retirement isn't enough for the short time they serve; they want to be mega millionairs through self glorification. Lincoln was for country --through the abolishment of slavery for all men. Obama is a fraud! When he loses, lets hope he shuts up and sits down like Kerry and Clinton.

60rodder
The GOP should have thought about this before they went hog wild for 6 years unopposed. They played there hand wrong, they thought Hillary was going to get the nod, but didn't and they weren't ready for Obama and to be honest they are just embarrassing themselves now.

infighting amongst the base, Palin doing her own thing, McCain's camp not letting McCain be McCain, every step of the way they have just played this like a amateur and its just embarrassing.

If and when Obama wins, it wasnt that Obama was good its that the GOP was pretty bad this election.

I'll save you the suspense, I am a Ron Paul (Constitionalist) supporter, still and always. This is of course if you even believe there really is a two party Govt. which is bullshit.
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Last edited by Bosco Warden; 10-28-2008 at 10:39 PM..
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 10-29-2008, 02:28 AM
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Obama is a terrorist.
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