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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2008, 05:39 PM
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id have no problem with palin for the next 8 years...you give here some power and she will kick ass....that woud be something the middle class as president ,,,,i hope some day she gets a shot to run for pres
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2008, 05:51 PM
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I guess it all depends on what the criteria are for rating or grading the debate. Both did what they had to do. Palin was the attack dog and Biden avoided criticizing her to any extent focusing on McCain (Bush) to drive his points home.
It went as I expected it would because I felt beforehand that Ifill would not challenge Palin to any extent to avoid any accusations of being pro-Obama, etc. (she does have a book coming out that deals with blacks in politics and there's a chapter on Obama--though it's not written yet)

Palin does not do well in an interview because she has some difficulty digesting the question and formulating an intelligent response in a short period of time (like all of us, I'd say). So in an interview she drifts and gets into trouble. It's either that or she had been taking stupid pills and stopped taking them a few days before the debate.
Palin went with her strength and that is her personality, folksiness, and ability to memorize series of rote responses to certain topics. When she was faced with a question that required analysis and thought in an area where she was weak, she'd simply avoid the question (sometimes entirely) and plug in her talking points. Can't do that in a direct interview. And luckily Ifill didn't press her on that.
If you like the GOP, you loved Sarah.
If you're a Dem, you believe Biden did the job.
Couldn't believe she thought the Constitution should allow for an expansion of powers for the VP.
Lots of critique of the debate on the web. I found George Stephanopoulos gave it grades as follows:

Strategy
Biden A
Palin A-

Style
Biden A-
Palin A

Accuracy
Biden B
Palin B

Generally VP debates don't usually boost a candidate, but can hurt one.
I'd say neither candidate hurt their ticket.

Anyone interested can review the fact check of both candidates here:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2...in_debate.html

Right now it doesn't look good for the GOP in the Electoral College, but we're still four weeks out.

BTW, I thought Biden looked old.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2008, 06:19 PM
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It was interesting that the moderator would let Biden do a follow up answer on everything and not allow Palin to do the same - "Senator Biden would you like to respond to that", even though he had already had his time. When it was the same situation with Palin she would just turn to Palin and ask another question.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2008, 07:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CENJIM
It went as I expected it would because I felt beforehand that Ifill would not challenge Palin to any extent to avoid any accusations of being pro-Obama, etc. (she does have a book coming out that deals with blacks in politics and there's a chapter on Obama--though it's not written yet)
From what I've read, it is written, it's titled "The Breakthrough: Politics and Race in the Age of Obama" to be released on Inauguration day.

Not very objective, in my opinion.

The book's success is invested in Obama. It only focuses on 4 people, 1 being Obama.

McCain's camp states they did not know of the book before hand.

It has been said, in law this would have created a mistrial.

A web site shows Ifil's report of Palin, after her speech at the Republican convention, and she was obviously disgusted at Palin's tactics and digs at Obama and his campaign.

Only in America can a moderator of a debate be so bias to one side.

Last edited by FRANKTHECRANK; 10-03-2008 at 07:18 PM..
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2008, 07:17 PM
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Just "Google" vp debate moderator, and you will get plenty of links to the bias woman and the controversy surrounding her.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2008, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CENJIM
BTW, I thought Biden looked old.
"Cheaters Never Prosper"
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2008, 09:06 PM
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Here's the deal on Ifill.
It was common knowledge (or at least available to anyone who took the time to do a web search) that she was writing that book. "Breakthrough: Politics and Race in the Age of Obama."
From the Random House website:
In THE BREAKTHROUGH, veteran journalist Gwen Ifill surveys the American political landscape, shedding new light on the impact of Barack Obama’s stunning presidential campaign and introducing the emerging young African American politicians forging a bold new path to political power.

Ifill argues that the Black political structure formed during the Civil Rights movement is giving way to a generation of men and women who are the direct beneficiaries of the struggles of the 1960s. She offers incisive, detailed profiles of such prominent leaders as Newark Mayor Cory Booker, Massachusetts Governor Deval Patrick, and U.S. Congressman Artur Davis of Alabama, and also covers up-and-coming figures from across the nation. Drawing on interviews with power brokers like Senator Obama, former Secretary of State Colin Powell, Vernon Jordan, the Reverend Jesse Jackson, and many others, as well as her own razor-sharp observations and analysis of such issues as generational conflict and the "black enough" conundrum, Ifill shows why this is a pivotal moment in American history.

THE BREAKTHROUGH is a remarkable look at contemporary politics and an essential foundation for understanding the future of American democracy.


The book is not yet finished and is to be on the bookstore shelves 1/20/09. There is the one chapter on Obama and it has not been written yet.

The Debate Commission did not know of the book, the McCain campaign did not know of the book (I guess they never bothered to vett Ifill even by a simple Internet search--makes you wonder about their competency!).
The campaigns knew in advance who the moderators would be and they had the opportunity to object, just as the McCain campaign negotiated to have the format of the VP debate changed to make it more friendly to Palin. They had ample time to argue over moderators if they chose to do so. McCain and Palin both said in interviews before the debate that Ifill and her authoring of the book was not a concern to them. Palin even mentioned that they are the underdogs and this just makes them work harder.

Though in a court of law if Ifill were the judge deciding on a Palin case, she would probably recuse herself. At the very least, you would most likely fire your attorney or sue him/her for malpractice if they (your attorney/McCain campaign advisors) did not bring this information to you.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2008, 09:12 PM
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2008, 09:45 PM
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It's still painfully obvious that the books success depends on the success of Obama, and he being elected.

I think that can't be denied. No way will the book sell as well, if Obama is defeated.

That being said, there is definitely reason to believe that Ifil would be leaning in a certain direction pertaining to who she would like to see in the whitehouse.

No need to google or copy and paste anything to see that.

Like I said, check the clip of her report of Palin's convention speech and ask yourself if she shows any "body language" love for Sarah.

Last edited by FRANKTHECRANK; 10-03-2008 at 09:48 PM..
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Old 10-03-2008, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rastoy
It was interesting that the moderator would let Biden do a follow up answer on everything and not allow Palin to do the same - "Senator Biden would you like to respond to that", even though he had already had his time. When it was the same situation with Palin she would just turn to Palin and ask another question.
"It will be divided roughly into five-minute segments. Each candidate will have 90 seconds to respond to a direct question and then an additional two minutes for rebuttal and follow-up."

Looking over the transcript, these are times when Ifill came back to Palin for a second rebuttal.

IFILL: Governor, please if you want to respond to what he said about Sen. McCain's comments about health care?
PALIN: I would like to respond about the tax increases....

IFILL: Would you like to have an opportunity to answer that before we move on?
PALIN: I'm still on the tax thing because I want to correct you on that again. And I want to let you know what I did as a mayor and as a governor. And I may not answer the questions that either the moderator or you want to hear, but I'm going to talk straight to the American people and let them know my track record also....

IFILL: Governor, are you interested in defending Sen. McCain's health care plan?
PALIN: I am because he's got a good health care plan that is detailed. And I want to give you a couple details on that....

IFILL: Gov. Palin, is that so?
PALIN: That is not so, but because that's just a quick answer, I want to talk about, again, my record on energy versus your ticket's energy ticket, also.
I think that this is important to come back to, with that energy policy plan again that was voted for in '05....

IFILL: Thank you, senator. Governor.
PALIN: Oh, yeah, it's so obvious I'm a Washington outsider. And someone just not used to the way you guys operate....

IFILL: Governor?
PALIN: Say it ain't so, Joe, there you go again pointing backwards again....
--------------------------------------------------
I did note that Ifill came back to Biden whenever Palin ended her reply with an accusation against Obama/Biden.

By and large, Biden's statements were answers to the questions asked and Ifill always came back to Palin when Biden directed an accusation at McCain/Palin.

But this statement by Palin is most troubling:
PALIN: No, no. Of course, we know what a vice president does. And that's not only to preside over the Senate and will take that position very seriously also. I'm thankful the Constitution would allow a bit more authority given to the vice president if that vice president so chose to exert it in working with the Senate...


The Vice President of the United States shall be President of the Senate, but shall have no Vote, unless they be equally divided.

Aside from that and the 25th Ammendment, I don't think there are any other references to the VP's powers in the Constitution.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2008, 09:53 PM
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(vp debate moderator) in a Google search will show you more than I could type for reaction to Ifil. The second choice on the first page list, is a good one. I tried to post the web address that comes up when you click on that selection but the link came up invalid.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2008, 10:01 PM
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I reviewed it.
So we have Ifill not removing herself and McCain's campaign not bothering to vett the moderators.
Did you notice anything from Ifill last night that would rise to the level of prejudice against Palin or favorable treatment to Biden?

I didn't notice any, but if there is or was anything, will it impact the outcome of the election?

Overall, Palin put in an admirable performance and exceeded expectations.
And we have GOP commentators and fans saying she wiped the floor with him or hit it out of the park.
Seems like a non-issue?
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Ua mau ke ea o ka `aina i ka pono

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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 10-03-2008, 10:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CENJIM
I didn't notice any, but if there is or was anything, will it impact the outcome of the election?

Seems like a non-issue?
From toward the beginning of this thread, post 7, I said I didn't think the debate would really help or hurt McCain's chances.

As far as being a non-issue, looking at the size of your posts 17, 22, and 25, I hate to see your responses to something you thought was an important issue.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 10-04-2008, 11:36 AM
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One of those joke e-mails that's been going around:



http://www.cafepress.com/adennak

actually, she isn't that bad as described above, but when there's a way to make money from something, well, someone's usually around to fill the void.
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Old 10-04-2008, 11:43 AM
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Cenjim, it is safe to take down the duck-tape and plastic covering up all your doors and windows, and go outside........LOL!!! Just kidding, you come up with find more shat then anyone I know.
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