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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2008, 11:41 AM
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You won't believe where that $700-billion bailout figure came from

bailout bill didnt pass today, we won round one of this thing but its not over.

Quote:
Here's something that John McCain and Barack Obama and Sarah Palin and even longtime Washingtonian Joe Biden probably don't know. Not to mention Bob Barr, Ralph Nader and Ron Paul, who usually knows everything.

It's a fascinating footnote to the economic and political bailout debate that's kept so many people from more properly focusing on the pennant races and the Colts' problems in the last week. (Incidentally, do you think we'd have had this big fight if President Bush had called it a "rescue" plan instead?)

Our buddy from two lifetimes ago, Carl Lavin over at Forbes.com, points out a fascinating paragraph buried in a story on his website late last week by Brian Wingfield and Josh Zumbrun.

You know, this $700-billion figure that exploded into evThe U.S. Treasury Dept which was once headed by Albert Gallatin--see statue--a Swiss native and former U.S. representative who invented the powerful Ways and Means Committeeeryday political parlance almost as fast as Sarah?

The $700-billion "cost" of resolving the financial crisis and restoring confidence and liquidity in the credit markets starting this morning?

The $700-billion figure that Senate Democratic Majority Leader Harry Reid first said he could really use McCain's help with, but then the Arizonan took him up on it and Reid suddenly said the Republican would only get in the way and anyway, Reid said, he already had a done deal, except he didn't and the Nevadan ended up being the embarrassed one?

The $700-billion figure that dominated the first part of the first presidential debate of the 2008 general election season between McCain and Obama?

The $700-billion figure that won't really end up being anywhere near the actual cost because no one knows what all those mortgaged properties are really worth now anyway? Which is the whole problem in the first place because the institutions holding that paper don't know the value of what they're holding either, which is why everyone suddenly got so frightened?

That $700-billion figure that won't really last because eventually the feds will sell off what they're buying and might even make a profit in the end as they did with the Chrysler bailout warrants years ago?

You know where that very important $700-billion figure came from?

Here's a quote from that Forbes story:

"It's not based on any particular data point," a Treasury spokeswoman told Forbes.com Tuesday. "We just wanted to choose a really large number."

They made it up to be sufficiently ginormous to frighten everyone into rapid action.

And it worked.

--Andrew Malcolm
http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/wash...lout-plan.html
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  #2 (permalink)  
Old 09-29-2008, 11:59 AM
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I've seen plenty of members of congress say it won't take even close to that figure for a bail out.

The info has been filtering out that like any other bill passed in the senate, there is a shit load of pork barreling and bullshit attachments to the bill that people slipped in, bargaining to get it passed in the first place. Bull shit. Politics at it's finest.

If they can't get something passed, they make deals. "I'll vote for this bailout bill if I can attatch this one with it."
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Old 09-29-2008, 12:09 PM
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They just need to let the markets figure itself out, prices will drop and the real value of goods and services will be realized. Wall Street wants this to pass to keep these inflated prices high and there fictional wealth in tact.

If they pass this bill in anyway its just another propped up farce of economic stability and will fail once again. It would only buy us time until that happens..

Wall Street is down almost 600 points from the news that the Bill didnt pass.

I say we should just ride the storm out, and see what happens. No body wins if houses are empty, and people are without work. The consumer powers this country and if they cant consume, prices will have to drop in order to keep products moving.

Sounds like another great depression to me.

Fuck it, im ready
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Old 09-29-2008, 12:43 PM
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This is a great time to be alive in America. I love the history factor of this subject. Future generation will look back, and say those were great people.
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Old 09-29-2008, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polert
This is a great time to be alive in America. I love the history factor of this subject. Future generation will look back, and say those were great people.

I'm thinking you need to lay the crack pipe down!!!!!
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Old 09-29-2008, 01:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polert
This is a great time to be alive in America. I love the history factor of this subject. Future generation will look back, and say those were great people.
You must have taken the brown pill...
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Old 09-29-2008, 01:21 PM
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You can read the entire 110 pages of the bill in PDF form at this link:
http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/i/msnbc/Se...o08c04_xml.pdf

There is no pork in the bill. There are no ammendments attached to the bill.

The $700 billion figure as mentioned was pulled out of thin air. But it was a number they believed would be sufficient to meet the current need. They knew it would be in the "hundreds of billions", because the Feds had already committed over $600 billion in the past year to Fannie, Freddie, Bear Stearns and AIG. When they passed on Lehman Brothers that accelerated the decline of the market and increased pressure on numerous banks--Wachovia just got gobbled up, so anyone with that stock lost it all (depositors lost nothing)--and the mortgage crisis ballooned to what we have now.

The White House and the Treasury submitted their bill (all of 3 pages) to Congress and all the additional pages of paper were added to insure controls, oversight, transparency, and accountability. The original 3 page bill pretty much gave one man total control over all the money with no checks and balances.

The bill calls for reports to be issued after $50 billion is disbursed and within 7 days of every other aggregate of $50 billion is disbursed.

The bill states that $250 billion would be available immediately upon passage.

The President can then certify if necessary to increase the amount available to $350 billion. And from there on, the total limit available would be $700 billion outstanding.

Congress expected that a fair portion of the purchased assets would return cash to the program and ultimately lower the cost of the "bailout" or "rescue". This would be due to homeowners making payments on the mortgages and/or the eventual sale of the properties.

When the President's own party does not support the bill, you have to wonder what effect McCain had on "helping to broker a deal" as he took two days off from his campaign to work on this issue, saying as did Obama and Bush that the deal must be made and passed. Clearly you had many GOP reps who didn't want to face the electorate if they voted for it. The Democrats delivered more votes for the bill than they had promised and it was the GOP that came up short of what they thought they would deliver.

Now we'll have to sit back for a few days and see where the dust settles.
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Old 09-29-2008, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by polert
This is a great time to be alive in America. I love the history factor of this subject. Future generation will look back, and say those were great people.
Yeah, great Americans like Nancy Pelosi and Barney fucking Frank.
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhode Warrior
Yeah, great Americans like Nancy Pelosi and Barney fucking Frank.
Yeah, I'm still trying to figure out who the great ones are! Seems like they really aren't working together on this. Too worried about the election in a few weeks. Everyone in the House is up for grabs every two years. So it's much more partisan there than in the Senate. Having the House with 2 year terms and the Senate with 6 year terms and the President with 4 year terms keeps things with some degree of stability but still allows for voters to throw people out every two years.
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Old 09-29-2008, 02:54 PM
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Some don't want to realize where it all started!! New York Times Article: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...pagewanted=all


In a move that could help increase home ownership rates among minorities and low-income consumers, the Fannie Mae Corporation is easing the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other lenders.

The action, which will begin as a pilot program involving 24 banks in 15 markets -- including the New York metropolitan region -- will encourage those banks to extend home mortgages to individuals whose credit is generally not good enough to qualify for conventional loans. Fannie Mae officials say they hope to make it a nationwide program by next spring.

Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits.

In addition, banks, thrift institutions and mortgage companies have been pressing Fannie Mae to help them make more loans to so-called subprime borrowers. These borrowers whose incomes, credit ratings and savings are not good enough to qualify for conventional loans, can only get loans from finance companies that charge much higher interest rates -- anywhere from three to four percentage points higher than conventional loans.

''Fannie Mae has expanded home ownership for millions of families in the 1990's by reducing down payment requirements,'' said Franklin D. Raines, Fannie Mae's chairman and chief executive officer. ''Yet there remain too many borrowers whose credit is just a notch below what our underwriting has required who have been relegated to paying significantly higher mortgage rates in the so-called subprime market.''

Demographic information on these borrowers is sketchy. But at least one study indicates that 18 percent of the loans in the subprime market went to black borrowers, compared to 5 per cent of loans in the conventional loan market.

In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk, which may not pose any difficulties during flush economic times. But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a government rescue similar to that of the savings and loan industry in the 1980's.

''From the perspective of many people, including me, this is another thrift industry growing up around us,'' said Peter Wallison a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. ''If they fail, the government will have to step up and bail them out the way it stepped up and bailed out the thrift industry.''

Under Fannie Mae's pilot program, consumers who qualify can secure a mortgage with an interest rate one percentage point above that of a conventional, 30-year fixed rate mortgage of less than $240,000 -- a rate that currently averages about 7.76 per cent. If the borrower makes his or her monthly payments on time for two years, the one percentage point premium is dropped.

Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, does not lend money directly to consumers. Instead, it purchases loans that banks make on what is called the secondary market. By expanding the type of loans that it will buy, Fannie Mae is hoping to spur banks to make more loans to people with less-than-stellar credit ratings.

Fannie Mae officials stress that the new mortgages will be extended to all potential borrowers who can qualify for a mortgage. But they add that the move is intended in part to increase the number of minority and low income home owners who tend to have worse credit ratings than non-Hispanic whites.

Home ownership has, in fact, exploded among minorities during the economic boom of the 1990's. The number of mortgages extended to Hispanic applicants jumped by 87.2 per cent from 1993 to 1998, according to Harvard University's Joint Center for Housing Studies. During that same period the number of African Americans who got mortgages to buy a home increased by 71.9 per cent and the number of Asian Americans by 46.3 per cent.

In contrast, the number of non-Hispanic whites who received loans for homes increased by 31.2 per cent.

Despite these gains, home ownership rates for minorities continue to lag behind non-Hispanic whites, in part because blacks and Hispanics in particular tend to have on average worse credit ratings.

In July, the Department of Housing and Urban Development proposed that by the year 2001, 50 percent of Fannie Mae's and Freddie Mac's portfolio be made up of loans to low and moderate-income borrowers. Last year, 44 percent of the loans Fannie Mae purchased were from these groups.

The change in policy also comes at the same time that HUD is investigating allegations of racial discrimination in the automated underwriting systems used by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to determine the credit-worthiness of credit applicants.
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Old 09-29-2008, 03:01 PM
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Old 09-29-2008, 03:03 PM
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Some don't want to realize where it all started!! New York Times Article: 1999 http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...pagewanted=all

By STEVEN A. HOLMES
Published: September 30, 1999
In a move that could help increase home ownership rates among minorities and low-income consumers, the Fannie Mae Corporation is easing the credit requirements on loans that it will purchase from banks and other lenders.

The action, which will begin as a pilot program involving 24 banks in 15 markets -- including the New York metropolitan region -- will encourage those banks to extend home mortgages to individuals whose credit is generally not good enough to qualify for conventional loans. Fannie Mae officials say they hope to make it a nationwide program by next spring.

Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, has been under increasing pressure from the Clinton Administration to expand mortgage loans among low and moderate income people and felt pressure from stock holders to maintain its phenomenal growth in profits.

In addition, banks, thrift institutions and mortgage companies have been pressing Fannie Mae to help them make more loans to so-called subprime borrowers. These borrowers whose incomes, credit ratings and savings are not good enough to qualify for conventional loans, can only get loans from finance companies that charge much higher interest rates -- anywhere from three to four percentage points higher than conventional loans.

''Fannie Mae has expanded home ownership for millions of families in the 1990's by reducing down payment requirements,'' said Franklin D. Raines, Fannie Mae's chairman and chief executive officer. ''Yet there remain too many borrowers whose credit is just a notch below what our underwriting has required who have been relegated to paying significantly higher mortgage rates in the so-called subprime market.''

Demographic information on these borrowers is sketchy. But at least one study indicates that 18 percent of the loans in the subprime market went to black borrowers, compared to 5 per cent of loans in the conventional loan market.

In moving, even tentatively, into this new area of lending, Fannie Mae is taking on significantly more risk, which may not pose any difficulties during flush economic times. But the government-subsidized corporation may run into trouble in an economic downturn, prompting a government rescue similar to that of the savings and loan industry in the 1980's.

''From the perspective of many people, including me, this is another thrift industry growing up around us,'' said Peter Wallison a resident fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. ''If they fail, the government will have to step up and bail them out the way it stepped up and bailed out the thrift industry.''

Under Fannie Mae's pilot program, consumers who qualify can secure a mortgage with an interest rate one percentage point above that of a conventional, 30-year fixed rate mortgage of less than $240,000 -- a rate that currently averages about 7.76 per cent. If the borrower makes his or her monthly payments on time for two years, the one percentage point premium is dropped.

Fannie Mae, the nation's biggest underwriter of home mortgages, does not lend money directly to consumers. Instead, it purchases loans that banks make on what is called the secondary market. By expanding the type of loans that it will buy, Fannie Mae is hoping to spur banks to make more loans to people with less-than-stellar credit ratings.

Fannie Mae officials stress that the new mortgages will be extended to all potential borrowers who can qualify for a mortgage. But they add that the move is intended in part to increase the number of minority and low income home owners who tend to have worse credit ratings than non-Hispanic whites.

Home ownership has, in fact, exploded among minorities during the economic boom of the 1990's. The number of mortgages extended to Hispanic applicants jumped by 87.2 per cent from 1993 to 1998, according to Harvard University's Joint Center for Housing Studies. During that same period the number of African Americans who got mortgages to buy a home increased by 71.9 per cent and the number of Asian Americans by 46.3 per cent.

In contrast, the number of non-Hispanic whites who received loans for homes increased by 31.2 per cent.

Despite these gains, home ownership rates for minorities continue to lag behind non-Hispanic whites, in part because blacks and Hispanics in particular tend to have on average worse credit ratings.

In July, the Department of Housing and Urban Development proposed that by the year 2001, 50 percent of Fannie Mae's and Freddie Mac's portfolio be made up of loans to low and moderate-income borrowers. Last year, 44 percent of the loans Fannie Mae purchased were from these groups.

The change in policy also comes at the same time that HUD is investigating allegations of racial discrimination in the automated underwriting systems used by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac to determine the credit-worthiness of credit applicants.
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Old 09-29-2008, 03:04 PM
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In 2005, a man named John McCain, yes, that John McCain, tried to regulate Fannie and Freddie somewhat w/ a proposed bill to stop their lending to people who obviously couldn't buy a head of lettuce, much less a house w/ a mortgage. But the Democrats, led by Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, yes that Barney and Chris, bottled up the bill in committee and it never saw the light of day. And then Fannie gave ol' Chris c. $130K and Barack Obama c. $110 K to keep their mouths shut, until now, of course. But will we ever see these facts in the MSM? I'll give you one guess.
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Old 09-29-2008, 03:37 PM
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didnt we bail out ford or GM a while back i say fuckem.....they eather consolidate or sell out to toyota honda hyundia and they will turn the company around and create more jobs for americans....do the same with wall street....franny freeddy or whatever there name is...off to the unemployment line with all of them....we should bail out knowbody ... american white collar one eye closed greed was the problem...after all its the american way....im not voting i dont care as long as i have a buck in my pocket they can suck my dick....I am an americn
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Old 09-29-2008, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
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fucken moeman
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