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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2007, 08:02 AM
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Teach your children to shoot well and shoot from a far. They (the future American western morals) if not we in our own lifetime will see this photo in the American streets as an everyday occurrence.

"Shoot first, ask questions later. Wanted: Dead or alive. Such is our official policy regarding Osama bin Laden, the most infamous outlaw of the era." Who the fuck are you kidding. Every last muslim is an infamous outlaw of the era. Do they hold that war book close to their heart as you hold the western words of the bill of rights close to your? Like I need Shira Law in my fucking face. Like you have the next best idea and after 1400 years of hating yourselves enough to kill each other over a dumb war book.

Islam is good for muslims. Imagine 50 states acting like the 3 states in Irat. Not one human (forgive me calling a muslim a human), can deal with the other. That is Islam in action. The rats are coming and they are building rats nests called, Mouseques in your country... Better known as, Terrorist meeting halls, Ammo Depots, Jihadi Tool Rooms. You idiot Western!
They already have a mooslim that was sworn on the same Crap'ran Jefferson read about these, illogical,irrational,savages just 260 some odd years ago. Nothing has changed. Especially not Islam. Shira Law will be in the White House every day you give the mooslim the right to vote in your western world.
You call it racism. Fuck you if you put words in my mouth. I just observe mankind and call it as I see it. Wake the fuck up you, STUPID WESTERN STUPIDS!

When they say, "My friend, my friend".... Have them finish the sentence. "My friend, I want to cut your head off!"
They will drain this economy if we keep fighting them year after year. If we thin the herd starting with Iran, I would first call George and place the order, (what? a 15 minute take out order?) for Mamood who is always in a, "Ransomood."
Did you know that Mamood looks like he likes to suck little boys?.... He's got that pervert kind of face that likes to touch hair-less testicles. Mamood said he hates the name, "Pizza"... It's too Western. So, he now calls it, "Camel Shit rolled up in Dough." I kid you not. "Rolled up in Dough" was the quote. And this guy is about to send the fastest and dirtiest yellow cake candles in the thousands all over the world....

Because he has the FAITH, that even if you are born a mutant, you will still live a mooslim on this earth... Is that sick or what? WELLLLL, That's ISLAMA for ya!
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Last edited by cntrhub; 05-27-2007 at 08:06 AM..
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2007, 08:21 AM
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I wish our politicians actually did listen to the public. That way we would not be in the troubles we are in today and have been in the past. Our congressmen think they know best. They know best for you and me. There's lot's of laws to make us do right but no laws for our enemys. You slip up your gonna pay. Terrorists slip up and they get special meals and prayer rugs.After they get in they could give a rats ass for our opinions! There to busy kissin ass all the way up and back slappin.
Our local senator Carol Migdin worked on getting laws passed concerning cell phones. Staring 2008 we have to have hands free because she knows best. She just got into a big car wreck recently talking on her cell phone. There all HYPOCRITES!!!
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2007, 12:46 PM
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Imagine you guys had a big game next Saturday against the rival team. Would it help if you had their playbook? Well here it is. Note the date on this was BEFORE the Dems took over Congress so quit blaming the Dems for the escalation in deaths. Thats because of the Bush escalation and the general deterioration of the war. Now you guys want to invade Iran? Iran actually has a strong military. Can you say $12 a gallon?

Here's the source of this material in case you'd rather read it there: http://www.csmonitor.com/2006/0822/p11s02-woiq.html


An interview with an Iraqi insurgent

Jill Carroll, a freelance reporter for the Christian Science Monitor, was held hostage in Iraq for 82 days. This is her story.

Reporters on the Job:
Jill's decision to tell her storyJill Carroll, a freelance reporter for The Christian Science Monitor, was kidnapped by Sunni Muslim insurgents in Baghdad on Jan. 7, 2006. Over the next 82 days, she was shuttled blindfolded among at least six safe houses and had closer contact with Sunni insurgents than any American who has lived to tell the tale. Her chief captor required his journalist hostage to "interview" him for hours at a time. He would expound on the insurgent worldview and the ruling council set up by Abu Musab al-Zarqawi.

The importance of Fallujah
Fallujah 1 [the first battle for Fallujah in April 2004] was a point of change in the war between America and mujahideen [holy warriors].... All Muslims in the world ... asked themselves, 'How [did] they win a war against the American army? It was impossible.... [Afterward] Muslim babies [were] named Fallujah.

We can continue for 10 years
The American soldier comes from America. He left his country, his family, his children, his wife. He cannot see them, maybe six months or more. This is very big problem because they are men.... The mujahideen, [we] can [leave] our homes for 20 minutes, hit the American soldier, and come back home. So we [have fought] continuously now three years, and we can continue 10 years or more. But Americans cannot continue one year. It is impossible.

Scale of the insurgency
I have maybe 2,000 mujahideen in all Iraq, in all towns.... If I divide this into groups of 20, I have 100 groups. So this means I have 100 operations in a week. So in a month I have 400 operations. So if in every operation I kill only 2 soldiers, I kill 800 soldiers in a month. So [President] Bush is very tired because of this number of operations ... so we are sure that the American army cannot continue in Iraq.

US soldiers' treatment of Iraqis
When the American army took me they hit me. They hit me all over my body. They took my money.... The problem is how the American soldiers are dealing with the people.

Why call us terrorists?
Why [does the] American government say the mujahideen are terrorists? Sometimes when we try to hit the American soldier, or Iraqi soldier, sometimes we kill women and children in this operation. We don't want to kill the women or children, but this is war....
Allah judges people, asking you, 'How did you deal with the people, the wife, and with Jill Carroll?'

Sunnis vs. Shiites
In jihad, we don't want to kill women and children or old men, sick men. Why [do] we kill the Shia [Muslims]? Because they help the American army.... We don't want to make a complex [meaning coalition] government from Sunni and Shia. We want to make a government with Sunni only, because we know that the Shia don't like Sunni and Sunni don't like Shia. This is a fact. This is a very important historical fact.

So if we want to make a successful government, we must make this government Sunni only. And if the Shia want to make a government in the south, [that's] no problem for the mujahideen. We accept federalism. America wanted federalism in Iraq, no problem....

Oil for America, US cars for Iraq
I want to send a message to the American people. The mujahideen in Iraq, we have no problem with American people. Our problem is with Bush and his government.... [It's] no problem for Iraq, for the mujahideen government in the future, to send the oil to America and America to send to [the] Iraqi people the money or the cars or the computers or anything because the technology in America is very good.

We maybe go to America in the future to visit America. Maybe send our sons as students in American universities. We want to build our country. We don't want the war with any country. We want to build our country like the UAE [United Arab Emirates] because we know our country is very rich. We have a lot of oil, and two rivers. So we can build our country in a short time.

A message for US parents
So we ask all the fathers and mothers in America, 'You don't want your sons killed in Iraq?' We don't want your sons killed in Iraq. We don't want our sons killed, also. So we ask all fathers and mothers in America, 'Why [do] your sons kill our sons?'

A Muslim-Christian government?
Americans say the mujahideen don't know [what] we [will] do after the occupation. We know exactly what we will make: a government from the mujahideen and others. The government will be technocrats. For example, in the Ministry of Health, we can not put a farmer. We must put a doctor.
If we found [a] technocrat [who is a] mujahideen, we [would] put him [in charge]. If we don't find him in [among the] mujahideen, maybe we [will] take [someone] from outside [the] mujahideen. If we found a person [who] is not Muslim, maybe a Christian, and he is a good person from a good family - [it's] no problem for [the] mujahideen to put him in [charge of] a ministry. Islam and the Koran don't prevent [us from] putting this person in a ministry. But the president of Iraq must be Sunni. The Koran [requires] the president of a Muslim country [to be] a Muslim.

Postwar US-Iraq relations
Iraq is very tired [after the] war in Iran and after that war in Kuwait and the war now. We want to build the country very good and give every person a big house and a top car and make [it possible for] him to travel to the US and Europe and live like the other people in the world - like [the United Arab] Emirates people or Qatar people.

[The] American government or [President] Bush says we are terrorists in Iraq. If we finish this war, [he says] we [will] go to America to make problems in America. This is not true. We want to build our country.

Last edited by Farm Aid; 05-27-2007 at 01:08 PM..
  #34 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2007, 02:38 PM
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Lightbulb

The war will be won or lost strictly due to the vote whores in DC and the activist media, or doesn't anyone remember their history about the close of the Vietnam War and DC cutting their funding and causing the downfall of Saigon and the ARVN?

Of course, Carter cut the legs out from under the Shah of Iran so Khomeini could take over and here we are!

Remember to tell that to your grandkids about this time as they lose a friend to a bus bombing or are leaving to go back there against an enemy we can stop now.

We all share the responsibility when they hit us again.

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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2007, 03:40 PM
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The biggest problem for me with the whole "terrorist" theory and there strength in numbers is, if its such a huge threat how does the Border with Mexico play into all of this. Shit both sides want the border open it appears so something just isnt right.

Now the typical response would be yeah The politicians are fucking this one up, or they know more then we do and there is not fucking threat. For the border issue is about illegal immigration but its also and more importantly about National Security, well what the fuck gives?

this picking and choosing of information and when to use it doesnt work for me, We either have a huge terrorist problem or we don't. We held off the Russian that had 40k nukes and an Army, Navy, Air Force and KGB. We fret over some cave dwellers on the other side of the world that have no real way of delivering shit to the Continental US. I think 911 proved that.

YOU BUY THE FEAR CAMPAIGN, FOR ME IT DOESNT FUCKING WORK. PERIOD.
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Last edited by Bosco Warden; 05-27-2007 at 03:43 PM..
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2007, 04:11 PM
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Lightbulb They need us divided-

The politicos and terrorist typical tactic is..........change subjects and obfuscate the dialogue~


We've had a border problem for at least 30 years, but now it's a political hot potato.........the 9-11 killers were here legally-


We need to break relations with any and all supporters of the training that leads to terrorists cells-

Saudi Arabia
Kuwait
Pakistan
Malaysia
UN
France
Kosovo
.....et al~
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2007, 04:20 PM
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Agreed, but the border issue hasn't been of a National threat issue but a illegal immigration issue so I don't think this works here at all, if so how? Its two separate issue's for me not one.

Two of the hijacker were on a terrorist watch list and we just dropped the ball. That scenario wont be played out again.

We do need to cut ties with those mentioned.

I can keep this to a reasonable debate but to be honest the past actions of both parties be it the Neo Cons with the War or the Dems with Amnesty. What I think would be more productive is to debate or talk about who do you think will bring this country about and lead this country into the future. I personally don't trust anyone in the main stream political machine, they are the best democracy money can buy, but thats doesn't help me in the least.

If I may, Taxes are a given. When Bush took office our overall debt was 20 trillion, that's the big tab, its now at 60 trillion in 6 years and it doesn't appear to be stopping anytime soon. So who does it I don't think matters it has to be done to be fiscally responcible moving forward. While I hate taxes as much as the next guy why anyone didn't see this coming tells me they don't understand how the Govt works.

As you know I am for Ron Paul, he is a conservative with some out of the box ideals on how to get this country straight. While he has been bashed in every circle of the main stream just reinforces that fact he might just be onto something. Do you remember Ross Perot, the independent that ran not to long ago? They cant let that happen again, because of public outcry Ron Paul has been allowed to debate with the rest of them and done better then anyone in both debates.
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Last edited by Bosco Warden; 05-27-2007 at 04:29 PM..
  #38 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2007, 04:30 PM
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Thumbs up

We need-

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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2007, 04:43 PM
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and instead we get this....

Quote:
Gen. Franks Doubts Constitution Will Survive WMD Attack

John O. Edwards, NewsMax.com
Friday, Nov. 21, 2003

Gen. Tommy Franks says that if the United States is hit with a weapon of mass destruction that inflicts large casualties, the Constitution will likely be discarded in favor of a military form of government.

Franks, who successfully led the U.S. military operation to liberate Iraq, expressed his worries in an extensive interview he gave to the men’s lifestyle magazine Cigar Aficionado.


In the magazine’s December edition, the former commander of the military’s Central Command warned that if terrorists succeeded in using a weapon of mass destruction (WMD) against the U.S. or one of our allies, it would likely have catastrophic consequences for our cherished republican form of government.


Discussing the hypothetical dangers posed to the U.S. in the wake of Sept. 11, Franks said that “the worst thing that could happen” is if terrorists acquire and then use a biological, chemical or nuclear weapon that inflicts heavy casualties.


If that happens, Franks said, “... the Western world, the free world, loses what it cherishes most, and that is freedom and liberty we’ve seen for a couple of hundred years in this grand experiment that we call democracy.”


Franks then offered “in a practical sense” what he thinks would happen in the aftermath of such an attack.


“It means the potential of a weapon of mass destruction and a terrorist, massive, casualty-producing event somewhere in the Western world – it may be in the United States of America – that causes our population to question our own Constitution and to begin to militarize our country in order to avoid a repeat of another mass, casualty-producing event. Which in fact, then begins to unravel the fabric of our Constitution. Two steps, very, very important.”


Franks didn’t speculate about how soon such an event might take place.
Already, critics of the U.S. Patriot Act, rushed through Congress in the wake of the Sept. 11 attacks, have argued that the law aims to curtail civil liberties and sets a dangerous precedent.


But Franks’ scenario goes much further. He is the first high-ranking official to openly speculate that the Constitution could be scrapped in favor of a military form of government.


The usually camera-shy Franks retired from U.S. Central Command, known in Pentagon lingo as CentCom, in August 2003, after serving nearly four decades in the Army.


Franks earned three Purple Hearts for combat wounds and three Bronze Stars for valor. Known as a “soldier’s general,” Franks made his mark as a top commander during the U.S.’s successful Operation Desert Storm, which liberated Kuwait in 1991. He was in charge of CentCom when Osama bin Laden’s al-Qaeda attacked the United States on Sept. 11.


Franks said that within hours of the attacks, he was given orders to prepare to root out the Taliban in Afghanistan and to capture bin Laden.


Franks offered his assessment on a number of topics to Cigar Aficionado, including:
President Bush: “As I look at President Bush, I think he will ultimately be judged as a man of extremely high character. A very thoughtful man, not having been appraised properly by those who would say he’s not very smart. I find the contrary. I think he’s very, very bright. And I suspect that he’ll be judged as a man who led this country through a crease in history effectively. Probably we’ll think of him in years to come as an American hero.”


On the motivation for the Iraq war: Contrary to claims that top Pentagon brass opposed the invasion of Iraq, Franks said he wholeheartedly agreed with the president’s decision to invade Iraq and oust Saddam Hussein.


“I, for one, begin with intent. ... There is no question that Saddam Hussein had intent to do harm to the Western alliance and to the United States of America. That intent is confirmed in a great many of his speeches, his commentary, the words that have come out of the Iraqi regime over the last dozen or so years. So we have intent.


“If we know for sure ... that a regime has intent to do harm to this country, and if we have something beyond a reasonable doubt that this particular regime may have the wherewithal with which to execute the intent, what are our actions and orders as leaders in this country?”


The Pentagon’s deck of cards: Asked how the Pentagon decided to put its most-wanted Iraqis on a set of playing cards, Franks explained its genesis. He recalled that when his staff identified the most notorious Iraqis the U.S. wanted to capture, “it just turned out that the number happened to be about the same as a deck of cards. And so somebody said, ‘Aha, this will be the ace of spades.’”
Capturing Saddam: Franks said he was not surprised that Saddam has not been captured or killed. But he says he will eventually be found, perhaps sooner than Osama bin laden.


“The capture or killing of Saddam Hussein will be a near term thing. And I won’t say that’ll be within 19 or 43 days. ... I believe it is inevitable.”


Franks ended his interview with a less-than-optimistic note. “It’s not in the history of civilization for peace ever to reign. Never has in the history of man. ... I doubt that we’ll ever have a time when the world will actually be at peace.”

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/arti...0/185048.shtml
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Old 05-27-2007, 05:48 PM
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Agreed-

That is why the fighting will eventually be here on every street, house, and foot of ground because the government backed down and checked their balls into the sock drawer......again!

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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2007, 06:22 PM
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Illegal imigrants?

Easy. Fine the shit out of anyone who hires them. Maybe some jail time for the employers too. Take the jobs away and they'll quit coming. Trouble is employers like having cheap labor and customers like cheap products. Either way we're going to pay for it.

Why are we losing the war?

Because we never should have invaded Iraq in the first place. I am amazed at the number of people who still think Iraq had something to do with 9/11. Even Bush was forced to admit there was never any connection. Of course that was after they said "Iraq = 9/11" about a million times. Attacking Iraq after 9/11 would be like attacking Mexico after Pearl Harbor. The terrorists were in Afghanistan. Rumsfeld wanted to attack Iraq because they had "better targets". Like the guy who looks under the street light to find his quarter because the alley he dropped it in is too dark. The idiots in the Bush administration thought they could walk in there kick ass and take names and in 6 months time they would achieve the same success in the Middle East that the Democrats achieved in Germany and Japan after WW II. It was supposed to be their show place to prove how great things would be under conservative leadership. They were so convinced they were right that they ignored all the intel and never planned for what if it doesn't work out. Now they think if they just keep going everything will turn out in the end. Kind of like you CAN get to Missouri by heading West from Kansas if you keep going long enough. Republicans refuse to learn from their mistakes. There were so many better ways to use that manpower and treasure. Protecting our borders for one thing.

Meanwhile from page F26 of the conservative owned "liberal media":
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationwo...la-home-center

Bush was twice warned of Iraq challenges
Prewar reports alerted the president to the difficulty of establishing democracy, among other assessments that proved accurate.
By James Gerstenzang, LA Times Staff Writer
May 26, 2007

WASHINGTON — Two months before the invasion of Iraq, U.S. intelligence agencies twice warned the Bush administration that establishing a democracy there would prove difficult and that Al Qaeda would use political instability to increase its operations, according to a Senate report released Friday.

The report, issued by the Senate Intelligence Committee, brought to light once-classified warnings that accurately forecasted many of the military and political problems the Bush administration and Iraqi officials have faced since the U.S.-led invasion in March 2003.

These warnings were distributed to senior officials with daily access to President Bush and others at the very top of the administration, the report states.

Although many names were left blank to protect members of the intelligence community, the report's 81-page list of who received the predictions included figures throughout the national security bureaucracy.

One of those was then-deputy national security advisor Stephen J. Hadley, now the national security advisor.

Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman John D. Rockefeller IV (D-W.Va.), said the report demonstrated that "the intelligence community gave the administration plenty of warning about the difficulties we would face if the decision was made to go to war."

He added: "These dire warnings were widely distributed at the highest levels of government, and it's clear that the administration didn't plan for any of them."

Unlike previous studies of the buildup to the war, the Senate report did not focus on the intelligence community's flawed information, which included overstated assessments of Iraq's potential for developing weapons of mass destruction.

At a news conference Thursday, Bush was asked about the impending release of the report. He responded that "going into Iraq, we were warned about a lot of things, some of which happened, some of which didn't happen.

"I weighed the risks and rewards of any decision," he said, reiterating his view that removing Saddam Hussein from power was worth the price.

Bush also said, "Al Qaeda is going to fight us wherever we are."

The report spotlighted two documents prepared in January 2003 by the National Intelligence Council. One document was titled "Regional Consequences of Regime Change in Iraq," the other "Principal Challenges in Post-Saddam Iraq."

These papers warned that:

• Establishing "an Iraqi democracy would be a long, difficult and probably turbulent process, with potential for backsliding into Iraq's tradition of authoritarianism."

• Unless the occupying forces prevented it, "score settling would occur throughout Iraq between those associated with Saddam's regime and those who have suffered most under it."

• Among the majority Shiite population, which Saddam had kept out of power, a political form of Islam could take root, "particularly if economic recovery were slow and foreign troops remained in the country for a long period."

• Iran would probably try to shape the post-Hussein Iraq, in a bid to position itself as a regional power.

• Al Qaeda would probably take advantage of the war to increase its terrorist activities, and the lines between it and other terrorist groups "could become blurred."

Each of these assessments was prescient. And Bush now cites the danger posed by Al Qaeda forces in Iraq as a major reason for resisting calls that the U.S. begin decreasing its troop levels and set a firm deadline for withdrawal.

In early 2003, even as their deputies were receiving the intelligence community papers, top administration officials — among them Vice President Dick Cheney and then-Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld — publicly speculated that U.S. troops would be greeted warmly as liberators and gave no hint that some analysts were raising red flags about difficulties to come.

One assessment disclosed in the Senate report missed the mark; it predicted that heightened terrorist threats worldwide stemming from the war would decline, after an initial spike, in three to five years after the invasion. That decline has not occurred, according to State Department officials who monitor such threats.

The Senate committee approved the release of its report by a vote of 10-5. Republican Sens. Olympia Snowe of Maine and Chuck Hagel of Nebraska joined the Democratic majority in supporting its publication.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), a member of the panel, praised the compilation of the cautions circulated by the intelligence community but said the report should have critiqued more thoroughly how the assessments were handled within the administration.



The report is available online at http://intelligence.senate.gov/prewar.pdf
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Last edited by Farm Aid; 05-27-2007 at 07:07 PM..
  #42 (permalink)  
Old 05-27-2007, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redrigid
Agreed-

That is why the fighting will eventually be here on every street, house, and foot of ground because the government backed down and checked their balls into the sock drawer......again!

So you think these unorganized cave dwellers are more dangerous the then Old Soviet Union, and they pose such a great threat that our "Elected" officials sign a Amnesty bill which leaves our borders essentially open AND leaves 12 million people in this country unaccounted for....Dude, you have GOT to be kidding me.

Its either they are a major threat like they say then we close our border for NATIONAL SECURITY REASONS, NOT IMMIGRATION or They arent that big of a threat and only playing the fear card and sign a Amnesty bill to leave our borders open against an enemy of there creation. Yes they are a threat but they are such a small minority that is being blown up for political purposes here, then played down to fulfill other other agendas we its convenient.

You cant have both!!! Which is it?
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Last edited by Bosco Warden; 05-27-2007 at 07:47 PM..
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Old 05-27-2007, 07:53 PM
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Lightbulb It's more complicated than that..

It's been a problem since the 70's.......why the sudden alarmist attitude?

An organized opponent can beat an organized defender every time....ask any Karate guru...

So, in that respect they are more of a threat than the Soviets or Chinese because both of those nationalities can be reduced to liquid rock in 32 minutes..where we can't obliterate a nation(s) for a few gunman taking over a school in Kansas or L.A.

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Old 05-27-2007, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redrigid
It's been a problem since the 70's.......why the sudden alarmist attitude?

An organized opponent can beat an organized defender every time....ask any Karate guru...

So, in that respect they are more of a threat than the Soviets or Chinese because both of those nationalities can be reduced to liquid rock in 32 minutes..where we can't obliterate a nation(s) for a few gunman taking over a school in Kansas or L.A.

Nice try red, but what i said was its either a problem (terrorists) but obviously it isnt or we wouldnt have just signed a new bill which does nothing for our border. Immigration has been a problem since the 70's not terrorists in the continental US. So which it is, Immigration or terrorists?. Cant have both
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Old 05-27-2007, 11:07 PM
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Talking

We are America, we can do everything!

The borders are a voter issue now, that's why the politicians are catering to it this year.......if you noticed, it was the politicians with the media drumbeat that made this a hot button item.......like we've said, it's been 30 years in the making with the Southern/Northern border states doing absolutely nothing to stop the problem blaming lack of $$ from the Feds when it was really a state fund distribution problem.

They've been fighting the problem like the "Drug War" and failing miserably.

Which reminds me, we should decriminalize drugs immediately and give probation to all non-violent drug offenders and redistribute the save funds to the immediate borders and reassigned out of work jailers to the border to reinforce the US Customs folks.
National Guard training bases could be built on the borders for recurrent training in tracking and capturing eluding bands of people for the 60 year War on Terrorism.
New tracking equipment could be field tested with real life scenarios.

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