Big Bear Choppers 2004/2005 SLED, Venom, and Devils Advocate Frame Recall

[Rhode Warrior]

Why just post a statement on a forum and not stick around to answer the inevitable questions? WTF? If you weren't going to interact with BBC owners and answer their questions, why not just send out the letters to the owners and deal with it through the dealers?

[RRSA]

Originally Posted by mitch

Also i didn't buy my bike from a dealer and just because they build bbc bikes doesn't mean they no shit about fixing a frame.

You got that right.

[zfloorgod]

I think this too is a crock of crap. I have an '04 venom w/ a custom Viper Red paint that was bought directly from Dodge. How are they gonna match that, and what do i have to to now, go without my bike for God knows how long, and still make my $500.00 a month payment. Yea that sounds like a plan to me. There has got to be a better solution. Even w/ a new frame, who is gonna build it?? I'm a freeking wood guy. I know shit about metal. Do i have to pay to have it torn down and rebuilt??? F*&# that. It's not my problem their frames are turning out to be shit. Mike or Ryan, or somebody better clear up this mess quick, or BBC is gonna have a huge(er) problem on their hands.

Live like you mean it............................

[skylarbluepuppy]

well it wont really be up to big bear the ntsa has to approve of any safety recall repair procedure

[zfloorgod]

Hey, I jusy called Joe's Waffles and Welding and they said they're booked till the end of the the month.

This is just fuckin' great!!!!

[Lightnin'Larry]

Now that's funny right there that is I don't care who you are

Originally Posted by chopparch1217

Perhaps BBC could demonstrate this "repair" and touch-up paint solution on Larry's frame and post some pics.

[GPKART]

This is how I interpret the BBC frame recall.

- The guy(s) that do shitty welds the necks don't weld any other parts of the frame? I would think that there are many shitty welds on the affected frames.

- BBC knows the problem, cause they narrowed it to 350 frames. Was it a person?

- BBC thinks they can fix this problem with a $1 steel gusset and a little paint.

- BBC doesn't care about your resale value. Every effected bike just lost resale value. Who would buy one? The only way to retain full resale value is to get a new frame.

- I would think you all should get together for a class action lawsuit.

I don't own a BBC bike. I almost bought a kit..... But decided to built a one off. What I did do is recommend a friend of mine to buy a BBC. What if he died cause the front end fell off?

gp

[BBC-DA-rider]

Ouchhh.....

I chromed my frame 100%. What about that? That's a complete rebuild. Very expensive, time consuming, and just %$%#$%@ annoying.

I would'nt know even where to start listing the issues with this train wreck.

[CENJIM]

Originally Posted by DaveRyan

This posting is from Big Bear American Made Choppers, Inc., and pertains to all 2004 and 2005 Sled, Venom, and Devils Advocate Chopper Owners - 350 motorcycles and kits. Please note this communication does not pertain to the ProStreet configuration of the models noted - they are unaffected by this action.

We were unable to respond by the 21st of March, as we have been coordinating the recall action with the National Highway Transportation and Safety Administration ("NHTSA"), and recall actions are governed by specific regulatory instruction. We have determined certain frame welds may not have sufficient strength where the neck is connected to the backbone and the down tube. While some welds may be of sufficient strength, there is no way to ascertain the strength of the weld by visual inspection. As a result, and in the interest of owner safety, we are recalling all frames of the affected models. Owners of the models noted above must not ride their bikes until repair is made.

We will be coordinating the repair procedure with our Dealer network in the coming days. The repair of the motorcycle will be made at no cost to the owner of the affected model, and will include an allowance for paint of the area affected by the repair. In addition to coordination with our Dealer network, we have retained the services of R. L. Polk to assist us in locating all owners of 2004 and 2005 SLED, Venom, and Devils Advocate Choppers. We will be contacting the owners by mail to notify them of the recall.

Questions regarding this posting should be directed to our Warranty Department at (909) 878-4340.

We have manufactured over 5,000 motorcycles and motorcycle kits. The safety and welfare of our Big Bear Chopper owners is of paramount importance to us; I thank you in advance for your attention to this important safety matter.


Dave Ryan
General Manager
Big Bear American Made Choppers, Inc.

It's nice to see the process of resolution finally beginning here. Unfortunately, just as this entire topic of frame failure was brought up on ClubChopper in piecemeal and untimely form, with rider safety being secondary to restitution and compensation on Larry's behalf, it seems that any post by any party (be it BBC, LL, owners of BBC bikes, or the numerous haters of BBC as a company or their bikes in general) has generated a flurry of hasty responses by many of us who are naturally very anxious to get the matter resolved at no cost and no trouble (quite impossible by anyone's standards) so that we can get what we want and deserve--a safe, rideable bike to enjoy for many years to come.

But all of us are damned if we do and damned if we don't, aren't we? Looking at Dave Ryan's post at the start of this thread, I saw it as an opening of the resolution phase to a recall that would hopefully put this matter to bed after a bit (maybe quite a bit!) more aggravation.

The posting was fairly general, but reassuring, with just about every detail of the process omitted for obvious reasons--most likely because the devil is in the details and the best way to a fair resolution would be a well thought out plan being put in place as quickly as possible--and those details are likely yet to be worked out.

As such, with all those unknowns, people tend to get frustrated and impatient and begin to worry that their needs will not really be met. And people are posting all sorts of discontent here without really knowing what is actually being offered.

With riding season for much of the country just around the corner (though a good number of you have enjoyed the winter riding season in more milder parts of the US), we have to wonder when this problem was brought to the attention of the NHTSA by Larry and/or BBC, and what is it that both BBC and Larry are not sharing with us or are unwilling/unable to share with us.

It's the old three sides to every story dealio, you know.
Larry chooses what information he wants us to have, and BBC responds according to how their legal staff instruct them to respond.
Not a neat, clean, down and dirty sharing of facts for all. Pending litigation muddies the clean water for the rest of us.

How many months were wasted in the time between September of last year to mid or late February of this year when Larry brought his case of rider safety to us? And could have/should have BBC acted sooner here?

Still wondering what's been going on behind the scenes as they say. The shining light still casts shadows.

***********************************************
Some chronology on the topic:

6/22/07
Hey golfish,

Sorry I haven’t posted any pictures yet, been very busy lately. And my bike is down yet again! It will be a while before I can take any pictures.
Everything was looking really good there for a while like I said earlier, but, after about 1500 miles a problem once again reared it’s ugly head. Big Bear is now refusing to even discuss the problem with me at all! Don’t ask what it is because I will not talk about it here. BBC has personal that monitor this forum on a daily basis and if you say ANYTHING even slightly negative it gets recorded and the next time you need something from BBC, even something as simple as information, your likely to get the response “your on your own!”
Be very careful what you say here because Big Brother Choppers is watching!

2/19/08
Has anyone here heard of or has had any problems with any of the welds on the frame or swingarm on any model of Big Bear bikes?????

2/19/08
CENJIM,

Yes, I am alive but only by a total, complete and bonafide miracle of God! I should be dead and that's all I can say about that. Yes, after the stuff you reposted things went very bad indeed! I can't say what welds at this time due to the pending litigation. Their "offer" on their guarantee was hardly appropriate to the seriousness of the circumstances!
I can say that under NO circumstances will I ever trust my life or limb to any BBC product!

2/19/08
golfish,

On Friday August 31st 2007 at 4:30 pm while traveling on southbound Hwy 87in San Jose, CA the welds between the neck stem and the top and down tube suddenly and without warning snapped and the front end assembly completely separated from the rest of my 2004 Big Bear Choppers Devil’s Advocate chopper motorcycle.
The motorcycle slammed down on the lower frame rails and while trying to hold on to the now unattached front end I slid for over 500 feet! By some miracle of God the motorcycle did not flip, tumble or fly out of control. It goes without saying that it's amazing that I'm alive to tell the tale.


"It goes without saying that it's amazing that I'm alive to tell the tale."

And all of us and all of yours are grateful that you made it through that experience alive!

[Lightnin'Larry]

Dear CENJIM,

I filed my formal complaint with the NHTSA on 9/06/07, six days after the incident, hope that eases your mind.

Originally Posted by CENJIM

With riding season for much of the country just around the corner (though a good number of you have enjoyed the winter riding season in more milder parts of the US), we have to wonder when this problem was brought to the attention of the NHTSA by Larry and/or BBC, and what is it that both BBC and Larry are not sharing with us or are unwilling/unable to share with us.

How many months were wasted in the time between September of last year to mid or late February of this year when Larry brought his case of rider safety to us? And could have/should have BBC acted sooner here?

3/09/08
Hey golfish,

Actually there are very good reasons why it took so long, and it wasn't six months. BBC first heard about this in early December 2007. They were formally informed on January 29, 2008.
From my past experiences with BBC I fully expected to get the response I got, that being they would try and somehow turn this back on me. So, I decided to make sure beyond a reasonable doubt that the welds were bad and that nothing I had done could be the cause. I had to find a company that specialized in weld failure analysis and take the bike there and give them adequate time. I also needed to find legal counsel. These things take time unfortunately and I travel a lot for my job and that entered into to it as well. I did file a formal complaint with the NHTSA 6 days after the incident to try and get the information out. I had to wait until I had all my ducks in a row before going forward. And as we have seen here you better be absolutely sure your facts are correct before just jumping in and declaring that some company has a problem or you can end up getting sued for libel/slander etc. Even when it is the truth you still need to be cautious as how you say it. Also, I have no experience in how stuff like this works, never had anything like this happen before (and never want to again!) It took some time to figure out where to go what to do and how.
I'm just glad that this is now out in the open and that somebody’s mother, father, brother, sister, son or daughter is now warned and won't loose their life or limb.

FYI,
Here is the complaint I filed on 9/06/07 with the NHTSA

Make : BIG BEAR CHOPPERS Model : DEVILS ADVOCATE CHOPPERS Year : 2004
Manufacturer : BIG BEAR AMERICAN MADE CHOPPERS, INC
Crash : Yes Fire : No Number of Injuries: 1
ODI ID Number : 10202121 Number of Deaths: 0
Date of Failure: August 31, 2007
VIN : 1B9SD21024B...
Component: STRUCTURE:FRAME AND MEMBERS
Summary:
WHILE TRAVELING AT 65 MPH ON SOUTHBOUND HWY 87 IN SAN JOSE, CA THE WELDS ATTACHING THE NECK OF MY MOTORCYCLE TO THE FRAME BROKE AND THE ENTIRE FRONT END WAS SEVERED AND WAS NO LONGER ATTACHED TO THE REST OF THE MOTORCYCLE. THE MOTORCYCLE SLAMMED TO THE PAVEMENT AND SKIDDED ON THE FRAME FOR OVER 500 FEET, BY SOME MIRACLE OF GOD THE MOTORCYCLE STAYED UPRIGHT AND CAME TO A STOP. I WAS NOT SERIOUSLY INJURED BUT SUFFERED NECK AND BACK WHIPLASH AS WELL AS SEVERE EMOTIONAL TRAUMA. I HAVE HAD MANY PROBLEMS WITH THIS MOTORCYCLE BUT THE MANUFACTURER, BIG BEAR CHOPPERS IN BIG BEAR LAKE CA, HAS BEEN VERY UNRESPONSIVE AND RUDE. THIS IS NOT THE FIRST WELD ON THE FRAME TO HAVE BROKEN. I REQUESTED IN WRITING THAT THEY INSPECT ALL FRAME WELDS, THEY DID NOT DO SO. MY MAIN CONCERN IS FOR OTHER OWNERS OF THIS BRAND MOTORCYCLE AS THE NEXT PERSON MAY NOT BE SO FORTUNATE AS I WAS AND MAY LOSE THEIR LIFE! THESE MOTORCYCLES ARE ROLLING DEATH TRAPS DUE TO WHAT ARE APPARENTLY EXTREMELY POOR MANUFACTURING METHODS. *TR *FB

[lowpsi]

Originally Posted by DaveRyan

Please note this communication does not pertain to the ProStreet configuration of the models noted - they are unaffected by this action.

So does that mean the guys with Prostreets, that got the letter or email stating DO NOT RIDE, are still supposed to wait or are we safe? No where in BBCs statement doest it refrence Prostreets, yet when the letters first went out Prostreet owners were to to NOT Ride as well...... When do we get notified what we are supposed to do??? Are we to assume our bikes are safe? Doesn't sound very professional (or legal)... Here is a copy of the email I sent BBC a few hours ago. Lets se what response I get, if any at all...

After reading the BBC post again, it states "this does not pertain to prostreet versions." It never really says prostreets are safe, are they?


On 3/25/08, Bradley Lynn <bl.onlinesales@gmail.com> wrote:
Ok, I have read on Club Chopper, a posting from BBC that states the prostreet versions are safe to ride as it looks like BBC is going to be issuing a recall on the chopper versions. Since you sent me an email (and many others via certified mail) telling me not to ride until further notice. Can I get some "official" email or letter from BBC stating my frame is "safe" to ride. I would like this in my files, so when the day comes to sell it I have some form of documentation stating my model was not impacted and repairs weren't necessary. Thank you.

Sincerely,
Bradley J Lynn

[tauruck]

Originally Posted by chopparch1217

Perhaps BBC could demonstrate this "repair" and touch-up paint solution on Larry's frame and post some pics.

Here's one for ya. There's this guy "Tommie" who is the agent for BBC in South Africa. He's sold about sixty or so I'm told. How are those bikes affected going to be repaired. Fly in a fully equipped 747 with welders and crew maybe. I feel for you guys.

[golfish]

Originally Posted by BBC-DA-rider

Ouchhh.....

I chromed my frame 100%.

I bet you learned your lesson not to chrome a frame

I thought about this all day. I don't see a touch up fix for this..

[golfish]

Guy's, I see a lot of people that are pissed off, I don't blaime you one bit, I'd be pissed too...But!! if you haven't called BBC and talked to them, your just pissin in the wind. I've ran across a few people bitching about what's going on but they have yet to talk to BBC about the problem...

Call em!!!!!!!!!!!

[CENJIM]

A chromed frame requires a redo. If you want it to be all chromed like you've got it (and with your killer paint and chrome scheme that's a no brainer!) it means stripped and back into the tank.
This is just the start of the resolution process. Painful, slow, Excedrin headache.