BBC frame weld problems

[Scottm]

Hey All BBC Owners,
Here is the latest notification that was sent out and posted on the NHTSA site.


January*04,*2010*
IMPORTANT*SAFETY*RECALL*NOTICE*
RENOTIFICATION*NOTICE**
*
Dear*Big*Bear*Chopper*Owner:
**
*
This*notice*is*sent*to*you*in*accordance*with*the*requirements*of*the*National*Traffic*and*Motor*Veh icle*Safety*Act.
**
*
A*PREVIOUS*NOTICE*WAS*SENT*TO*YOU*REGARDING*BIG*BEAR*CHOPPERS*RECALL*08V‐129.*OUR*RECORDS*INDICATE*T HAT*YOU*RECEIVED*THE*INITIAL*NOTICE,*BUT*AS*OF*THE*ABOVE*DATE;*YOU*HAVE*NOT*COMPLIED*WITH*THE*COMPLE TION*OF*THE*RECALL*PROCEDURE.*THIS*IS*SERIOUS;*YOU*MUST*NOT*RIDE*YOUR*MOTORCYCLE*UNTIL*THIS*RECALL*H AS*BEEN*COMPLETED.
*
*
What*is*the*reason*for*this*notice?
**
Big*Bear*Choppers*has*decided*that*a*defect,*which*relates*to*motor*vehicle*safety,*exists*in*2004*a nd*2005*Devil’s*Advocate,*SLED*and*Venom*Choppers.**Also*included*are*VIN*IDENTIFIED**2004*and*2005* Devil’s*Advocate,*SLED*and*Venom*Prostreets*and*VIN*IDENTIFIED**2006*Venom,*Devil’s*Advocate,*Sled*C hoppers*and*Prostreets*that*were*manufactured*prior*to*12‐31‐05.*Some*vehicles*may*have*inadequate*w eld*penetration*between*the*neck,*backbone,*and*down*tubes*of*the*frame.*High*loads*created*when*rid ing*on*rough*road*surfaces,*and*or*structural*modification*made*to*the*frame*by*owners,*failure*to*m aintain*the*specified*torque*setting*of*the*top*motor*mount*may*cause*the*effected*welds*to*crack.*W orst*case*scenario,*the*welded*area*could*break*without*warning*resulting*in*neck*separation*and*fro nt*end*collapse.*This*could*result*in*a*crash.
**
*
To*date,*we*have*not*had*any*serious*injuries*or*fatalities*associated*with*this*defect,*however,*we *believe*the*potential*risk*warrants*this*recall*action**
*
What*should*you*do?
**
1.*STOP*RIDING*YOUR*MOTORCYCLE*IMMEDIATELY.**YOU*MUST*NOT*RIDE*YOUR*MOTORCYCLE*UNTIL*THIS*RECALL*HAS *BEEN*COMPLETED*
2.*Please*contact*your*Big*Bear*Choppers*dealer*as*soon*as*possible*to*arrange*a*service*date.*Instr uctions*for*making*this*correction*have*been*sent*to*your*dealer*and*the*parts*necessary*for*the*rep air*are*available.**A*neck*gusset*will*be*installed*as*a*basis*for*identifying*bikes*that*have*had*t he*correction*made.**Labor*time*necessary*to*perform*this*service*correction*is*approximately*5*hour s,*excluding*paint*time.*Please*ask*your*dealer*if*you*wish*to*know*how*much*additional*time*will*be *needed*to*schedule*and*process*your*vehicle.*The*inspection*and*any*necessary*repairs*will*be*done* free*of*charge.*A*paint*allowance*for*the*area*affected*by*this*Safety*Recall*procedure*is*included* in*the*dealer*Service*Bulletin.
***
**
Who*to*contact*if*you*experience*problems.
**
Your*Big*Bear*Choppers*dealer*is*best*equipped*to*obtain*parts*and*provide*service*to*ensure*that*yo ur*vehicle*is*corrected*as*romptly*as*possible.*If,*however,*you*take*your*vehicle*to*your*dealer*on *the*agreed*service*date,*and*they*do*not*remedy*this*condition*within*seven*(7)*days,*we*recommend* you*contact*the*Big*Bear*Choppers*factory*by*calling*909‐878‐4340.
**
After*contacting*your*dealer*and*the*Big*Bear*Choppers*factory,*if*you*are*still*not*able*to*have*th e*safety*defect*remedied*without*charge*and*within*a*reasonable*time,*you*may*write*to:
**
*
“The*Administrator*National*Highway*Traffic*Safety*Administration*
1200*New*Jersey*Avenue,*SE*Washington,*DC*20590*
Or*call*the*toll*free*Vehicle*Safety*Hotline*at*1‐888‐327‐4236(TTY:*1‐800‐424‐9153);*or*go*to*http://safercar.gov”
*
What*to*do*if*you*feel*this*notice*is*in*error.
**
Our*records*show*you*are*an*owner*of*a*model*subject*to*this*Safety*Recall*Notice.*If*this*is*not*th e*case,*and*you*have*sold*or*traded*your*vehicle,*please*let*us*know*by*completing*the*enclosed*post age*paid*information*change*card*and*returning*it*to*us.*We*will*then*update*our*records.
**
**
If*you*have*questions.
**
If*you*have*any*questions*about*this*notice,*or*need*assistance*locating*a*Big*Bear*Choppers*dealer, *please*call*the*Warranty*Department*at*909‐878‐4340.*You*may*also*go*to*our*website*http://www.bigbearchoppers.com*and*c...Chopper*Dealer.
**
*
We*apologize*for*any*inconvenience*we*may*have*caused*you,*and*are*taking*this*action*in*the*interes t*of*your*safety*and*continued*satisfaction*with*our*product.
**
*
Sincerely,
**
*
Big*Bear*American*Made*Choppers,*Inc. *

[Magchange]

DO NOT RIDE YOUR BBC BIKE!!! IT WILL BREAK WITH NO WARNING IT IS NOT IF, JUST WHEN!!! NO VISUAL INSPECTION WILL TELL YOU SQUAT!I don't want anyone else to get there body parts ripped apart by the ever merciless asphalt because of BBC's junk!

[OhioChris]

Magchange - I've got over 15, 000 HARD ridden miles on my 2004 BBC Venom. No problems so far other thans ones I've brought on myself. Can you offer proof it will break? What will break? Your post is BS without having any other info to back it up. Has something happened to yours? And yes, I am aware of the recall, and I have had it done. I LOVE my Venom and would build another one for sure. I'd also reccomend BBC to anyone wanting to buy a kit bike. Not saying their the only kits out there or that their even the best...but I'm VERY pleased with mine! My two cents...

Chris

[Magchange]

Proof? look at my profile picture!! BBC's warranty and claims are what's BS yes mine broke, at the neck, welds were total junk. I loved my bike too it is in pieces
so am I. I thought I bought the best there was to buy I was decieved ,Alsop is rich and I got screwed, if GM FORD or HD made such junk would you be backing them up? I just want to warn others that think maybe their bike is okay that it is not okay what is it you are trying to do? get them killed??

[Tjay]

Originally Posted by Magchange

Proof? look at my profile picture!! BBC's warranty and claims are what's BS yes mine broke, at the neck, welds were total junk. I loved my bike too it is in pieces
so am I. I thought I bought the best there was to buy I was decieved ,Alsop is rich and I got screwed, if GM FORD or HD made such junk would you be backing them up? I just want to warn others that think maybe their bike is okay that it is not okay what is it you are trying to do? get them killed??

If only you would have had the info you know now in 2004, when you were asking about BBC.

Can you share any details on what happened to your bike?

Hope you have a quick recovery.

[Magchange]

"If only" Man I've said that so many times, thanks for the thoughts.

[FRANKTHECRANK]

Originally Posted by OhioChris

Can you offer proof it will break? What will break? Your post is BS without having any other info to back it up. Has something happened to yours? And yes, I am aware of the recall, and I have had it done....

Chris

Chris,..........really?...........proof?

If the accounts listed in these 2 threads below aren't enough proof of welds failing on BBC frames,..........

BBC frame weld problems

Big Bear Choppers 2004/2005 SLED, Venom, and Devils Advocate Frame Recall

.......the fact that there"is" a recall is all the proof anyone should need. They're admitting the welds are faulty.

And, what do you have to say to Magchange now,..........his post isn't BS anymore, is it?

[OhioChris]

All I'm saying is telling people not to ride their BBC is going a little far. Maybe "don't ride them unless you've had the recall done" might be better. Yes, BBC had some problems with a batch of their frames. But, that doesn't mean every one of them is bad. I have heard that some of the weld problems were caused by cutting a whole in the neck to run wires.

I'm sorry to hear what happened to you Magchange and I hope you recover fine. When did this happen and how long did you have the bike? Was the recall done on your bike before this happened? Also, no, I'm not trying to get anyone killed. Just tired of people saying ALL BBC bikes are junk.

Frank - that's 2 bikes out of hundreds if not thousands on the road. Not trying to be a Dick here and sorry if I come off that way.

[FRANKTHECRANK]

I think if you really dig into it,........there's a lot more than 2 bikes that have been effected by the poor welds,.........and if I were a BBC owner, I would dig a little deeper.

Believe me,.......I hope no harm comes to you or anyone else, due to this problem.

Ride safe.

[OhioChris]

Thanks Frank. I'd like to know mnore about others that have had problems, but not sure how to find out. Any suggestions on how to do that?

[FRANKTHECRANK]

Well, I've followed this thread and the recall thread on and off, since they started,.......and I think I remember a few BBC owners posting who had the problems,.......had frames xrayed, talked about recall problems, etc,...etc,.....

I'm pretty sure, trying to get any non-biased info from BBC themselves, would be futile.

[RedWings]

Ever see what a pilot does before he takes off? He does a once around on the plane. After you ride for a few years you find yourself doing the same thing unconsciously and if you don't you're foolish. I don't care who makes the frame once you're dead you're dead so it's up to you to keep an eye on those things. Out of all the things that could go wrong, a neck snapping is the most dangerous so what should you do? Pay most attention to that area. I'm so conscious of that that every time I hit a big bump my eyes automatically go to the neck.

[golfish]

I smell a shill

[donald branscom]

They should have a certified welder to do the welding and the certified welder will have a stamp provided by the American Welding Society to stamp the paper work,
The paper work includes all of the information that would be needed.

The type of metal, thickness, Welding procedure specifications, WPS's etc.,.

Then the first frame should be load tested by a lab or other means.
The deformation could be seen if any. Or a computer analysis.

From my own experience it seems like frames that have a gusset welded in the frame neck area between the top tube and the down tube have NOT failed. Continously welded on both sides.

It would be very helpful if all frame failures with a report be submitted to the American Welding Society without any penalty so that all welders can learn from past experience.
Also I do not know if engineers have a program for motorcycle frames, but if you are an engineer and know of such a program maybe it would be helpful to let the forum members know what that program is or where it can be obtained.


I have built my own motorcycle frame but it is for my own personal use and I designed it from a set of plans. Just looking at the plans I can see that it is like other successful designs that have a track record. I am a certified welder and a certified welding inspector. The Harley Davidson engine is known to vibrate and that is an important consideration.
If I was building a frame for sale , I would pay to have an engineering study done.
I do not have any extra money at my age, so that is why I do not build for the public.
A engineering study could be a couple thousand dollars - minimum.

[donald branscom]

Originally Posted by FRANKTHECRANK

Well, I've followed this thread and the recall thread on and off, since they started,.......and I think I remember a few BBC owners posting who had the problems,.......had frames xrayed, talked about recall problems, etc,...etc,.....

I'm pretty sure, trying to get any non-biased info from BBC themselves, would be futile.

They would have to be so careful about what is said it would make the discussion difficult. I would think that they DO want to make a safe motorcycle.
But they need to hire a certified welder with TIG experience and there are not many around. I know from personal experience.
I interviewed welders to take my job which was very close to building motorcycle frames and only 10 people in the San Francisco Bay Area applied. Only 3 of those welders could do the quality of work that was in the ball park.


Also one more item..... Choppers with raked out front forks should NOT be doing wheelies. That is my personal belief. Even if the frame IS good. IT is not a good design for that kind of stunt. This is NOT TO SAY that the frame in question was subjected to this kind of treatment or if there was any disclaimer provided about that by the manufacturer.