BBC frame weld problems

[LUCKYDEVIL]

He had a failure analysis done. BAD WELDS

[Concrete Guy]

I don't have a dog in this hunt but it does upset me. Someone had to say that not chamfering was alright. "That will be just fine"

I do have to give the welder credit for being able to weld completely around the tube and not melt the razor sharp edge of the cope. That has to be a challenge. I sure as hell couldn't do it!!!

[MechWerks]

In that picture, you can see the cutter marks still on the tube. A proper weld would have burned into most is not all of that tube wall leaving absolutely no recognizable cutter marks. There is hardly any weld cross section. If the weld had been the proper depth of penetration (correct root section) there would have at least been a wide area of weld breaks provided the weld had actually be able to split and more likely that that root section width would have been pulled out of parent tube or the tube itself would have failed in the HAZ (heat affected zone).

http://www.mechwerks.com/Coping.htm is an article from my website showing a tube cope being made, fitted and chamfered prior to welding. The thin sharp cope ends are removed to expose full end sections of the tube being welded. A cut away of a similar weld shows there is weld from inside the tube wall clear to the outside plus a reinforcement fillet. It that example were destroyed, I have no doubt that that weld bead would remain in one piece and surrounding tube metal would be failed instead.

[MechWerks]

Originally Posted by Concrete Guy

I do have to give the welder credit for being able to weld completely around the tube and not melt the razor sharp edge of the cope. That has to be a challenge. I sure as hell couldn't do it!!!

TIG welding is making a puddle of the correct material penetration and adding filler wire to complete the weld. To make a weld that does not burn into the edge of a tube you simply use the torch to melt the filler wire over the base material without forming a penetrating puddle...totally wrong way to weld...is not a weld...definately appears to be the process used on this frame.

[gypsy chopper]

Originally Posted by MechWerks

I have no doubt that that weld bead would remain in one piece and surrounding tube metal would be failed instead.

if it wasnt ground

[Lightnin'Larry]

Hey Gypsy,

The place that you circled on the left, that's not bondo brother, that's the weld material itself.

Originally Posted by gypsy chopper

i dont see too much of anything except the line i drew inside the tube could be the edge of it.

but things like what i circled on the left, where bondo appears to go all the way to the tube itself...makes me wonder why. was there a crack or hole there the welder missed, big enough to stuff that bondo in, or was it ground to a point of NO WELD, or is that bondo smeared over from after the break, or the photos angle? all guesswork, & worth zero. but from the pic that should have been a big eyesore before the paint.

so...im not gonna analyze it like the zapruter film when the obvious answer is under the paint to confirm or deny.

yes rolling thunder has had more than one issue, as well as diamond, redneck, wwc, on and on.

[gypsy chopper]

the white stuff?

[Concrete Guy]

Originally Posted by gypsy chopper

if it wasnt ground

[Lightnin'Larry]

The "white" stuff is light reflected off the metal from the flash on my camera.

Originally Posted by gypsy chopper

the white stuff?

[LUCKYDEVIL]

[Concrete Guy]

Originally Posted by MechWerks

TIG welding is making a puddle of the correct material penetration and adding filler wire to complete the weld. To make a weld that does not burn into the edge of a tube you simply use the torch to melt the filler wire over the base material without forming a penetrating puddle...totally wrong way to weld...is not a weld...definately appears to be the process used on this frame.

I call that soldering (did I butcher that one)

[gypsy chopper]

ok then, there is no way i would have guessed that. maybe all you guys got better monitors than me.

and im not trying to insinuate anything larry, and havent from the beginning, except that i hate single downtube frames because i think they are inherently weak BY DESIGN. i totally believe you may not have ground anything. but since its gone to court, as well as being beat on here....i dont mind playing devils advocate(pun intended)

[Concrete Guy]

In the pic above I only see a little HAZ area on top and maybe, just maybe a little on the bottom.

[Lightnin'Larry]

No worries bro, it's all good

Originally Posted by gypsy chopper

ok then, there is no way i would have guessed that. maybe all you guys got better monitors than me.

and im not trying to insinuate anything larry, and havent from the beginning, except that i hate single downtube frames because i think they are inherently weak BY DESIGN. i totally believe you may not have ground anything. but since its gone to court, as well as being beat on here....i dont mind playing devils advocate(pun intended)

[CENJIM]

So when the weld analysis was done, did they strip off the paint and bondo, etc.?

If yes, do you have any pics to put up?