Solo seat questions

[hogbiker]

After 3 years of riding a rigid w/a frame mtd seat, my ass has convinced me to try a spring solo seat. Never did one before & am looking for some answers..I've seen mtng hdwe kits that req NO welding, like a clamp-on(J&P Cycles), which is what I prefer, but not sure if my frame has the space/place for the front mount-






Ideas appreciated..

[sinister]

All you need to do is use a piece of flat with 2 bolt holes to attach to your frame and tabs welded on to accept the hinge. Easy to unbolt if you want to go back to a frame mounted seat.
That style can also be purchased if you do not have welding capabilities.

[tod75154]

The bolt on kind you are talking about usually clamps on to the backbone for the front mount..

[hogbiker]

...check pic...look at the backbone up close..is there, or is there not room for a bolt on front mount??

[hogbiker]

bumping....

[Aussiechop]

Does anyone have pics of both setups on the same bike? As that's what i'll be looking at doing.

I can take pics of the bolt on spring mounts I got given to me recently, I haven't put them on the frame yet though.

[NickD]

Maybe it's just me but I don't see a photo in the OP.

Anyway like you, Hogbiker, I rode my rigid with a slammed (framed mounted) seat for a long time before switching to a spring mounted seat. And since then the seat is the one overall thing I've changed, fret over, and modified more than anything else since I finished my build. Before launching into my seat saga let me say the single most important thing that makes a rigid ridable, and more than just a barhopper, is ergonomics. The handlebars, footpegs, and seat must work together and fit your body like a custom made suit. Get just two out of the three right and you'll still be miserable after fifty miles.

But while ergonomics are very important there's two other considerations. The overall look and (in my case) ride height. Let's take the latter first. I'm pretty much average height at 5'8" so by height I'm not talking about my feet being flat on the ground. I'm talking about that feeling of sitting "in" the bike more than feeling you're sitting "on" the bike. As for looks, and out of the three, this is the one area you can compromise a bit. Nothing looks as good on a rigid as a slammed seat so, at least in my opinion, any spring seat set up is going to be a compromise (more on that later.)

The major advantage of a slammed seat, besides the look, is because the seat nests nicely in the angles formed by the frame and rear fender it holds your butt in place as there's no way to slide any further backwards. This is not only important under hard acceleration it's important when you're just putting down the highway. If the seat doesn't hold you in place than you're always hanging on by your arms off the handlebars. And that gets old after ten minutes. To achieve that butt support (that held in feeling) with a solo spring seat it must have a major kick up in the seat pan itself. (The back part of the seat pan must be bent up pretty severely.) Now if you look on E-bay, or anywhere else on-line, or even if you're holding a seat pan in your hand it may appear there's enough kick up in it, but think again. The pictures we see don't take into consideration these seat pans don't sit flat level on the frame. They follow the lines of the frame, which on most rigids rise higher towards the neck. Sure you can put in 4, 5, and even six inch springs under the seat to even it out, and bring the kick-up back into play, but sorry, I'm not Farmer John rolling down the boulevard on his friggen tractor. So here we are talking compromise again. Probably the most comfortable way to ride a rigid is with the sort of seat like the MoCo put on the now deceased Crossbones. And that type of seat goes all the way back to when all Harley frames came stock from the factory with rigid frames. Yes, I know looks are subjective, but to me those type of seats look hideous on the type of bikes we ride.

So hold the seat pan in your hand and tilt it up to the same angle as your lower frame rails. If you’re looking at a photo tilt your head. Yes, that’s right, the more you tilt up the nose of the seat the more kick-up that goes way in the rear. So with almost any seat pan you buy plan on heating up and bending in more kick-up. Now this isn’t much of an issue if you build your own seat pan, but there are several well made ones on E-bay that are cheap enough to not make it worth your time and effort. I know it sounds like you’re planning on buying a complete solo seat, but if the kick-up isn’t right you’re going to have to remove the leather and foam to fix it anyway. That’s not as hard as it sounds as you can drill out the pop rivets to remove the leather cover and use a heat gun to remove the glued on foam. But if you can do all that why pay big bucks for a complete seat? Just buy the seat pan, bend in some more kick-up, go down to the local crafts store and buy a yard of decent leather and closed cell foam and some glue. A hobby style pop rivet gun (hand squeezed) and the rivets are cheap at any decent hardware store. If you want a full on killer laced up leather seat you can set up the seat pan and all the rest we'll cover below and then just send it out. There's plenty of guys who do great leather seat work right on this forum.

Okay, so now you have the seat sorted out. Time for the springs. Don’t right away go crazy nuts and weld two posts to you frame’s crossbar. Mounting your solo seat that way, even with very short springs, makes the back of the seat sit up too high. That’s good if you didn’t first bend in more kick-up, but all of a sudden the seat isn’t following the lines of the fame any longer. And there’s a big ugly gap between the back of the seat and the fender. It also, again, lends itself to sitting you “on” the bike rather than “in” the bike. There’s a much easier and simpler way to mount the rear of the seat and it’s a way that doesn’t marry you to it like welding in posts.

U-bolts! Yes, that’s right I said garden variety U-bolts. Get two that are much longer than you think you need and that fit your frame’s crossbar. Before we get into the mounting let’s look at springs. Look, nothing you do seat wise is going to make your rigid float down the road like a Sofa-Glide. What you’re trying to accomplish is just take that occasional jarring hit away that makes you think you really are nuts for riding a rigid. To do that you only need springs that are about two inches tall. (Two and a half to three inches if you’re a real heavyweight.) And in both cases you can even get away with a lot less spring height.

Okay, if the U-bolt idea didn’t make you stop reading here’s why they work so well. They give you a lot of adjustability. Once the springs are mounted to the bottom of the seat place the U-bolts on the crossbar a proper distance apart. You’ll notice right away you have two choices for the spring mount. Over the forward part of the U-bolt or over the rear part of the U-bolt. This gives you a choice of sitting more forward or back which directly effects the reach to your handlebars and footpegs. (Keep in mind we aren’t worried about the nose attachment for the seat at this point, but we’ll get to it.)

You can also tilt the U-bolts forward and back which directly effects ride height. And if I can touch just one more time on sitting “in” the bike vs. “on” the bike, sometimes that’s just a matter of small increments of an inch. And remember you bought U-bolts that were too long so you’ll want to cut down the threaded ends to the size you need. Okay, you might be thinking all this will look like ass on a nice bike. But not really. The springs are short (less noticeable) and the seat sits lower toward the frame rails and further back towards the rear fender. Painting the springs and U-bolts to match the frame paint makes them all but disappear. This works great on a black Betty but it’s possible you may have to try a bit harder if you have some type of custom paint job. (Sorry, lol, but to me a custom paint job is something you frame and hang on a wall.)

I actually thought at first the U-bolts would be temporary. I’d ride the bike for a while dicking around with tilting the U-bolts and playing with spring heights until I got it just right. Well I did just that. I found I had to indeed cut the springs down to a custom height (they are only available in half-inch increments) and I moved from the front to the back of the U-bolts a few times. But the U-bolts have been on there a good three years and they never slip, move, or loosen up. And I see no reason do anything else. The only warning is if you have a frame made from very small diameter tube don’t go berserk hogging the U-bolts down. With the way U-bolts are designed there’s a lot of purchase and friction that holds them in place. If you need to protect the paint underneath put a U-bolt width rubber sleeve around the tube first.

Okay, now you have the seat height and distance forward and back set. For the nose mount forget about using any kind of hinge. Your new set-up isn’t a damn see-saw. Ether run a steel strap from under the nose to a bracket further up the frame (this depends on how much backbone stretch your frame has) or mount the nose right under the front of the seat. With the strap you don’t need a hinge as there’s more than enough “flex” in the steel strap to make it work in a lever sort of way. Hard mounted directly under the nose make things a bit stiffer but the seat is long enough that it still works.

As for mounting the seat to the U-bolts you can do it with some flat washers and nuts if you want but since you’re not using a nose hinge just let the springs sit over the top of the U-bolts. It ain’t going anywhere. When you need to remove the seat like if you have a center fill round oil tank its just that one nose bolt you’ll have to remove. Of course if you go with a nose hinge you can just flip the seat up for access, but then on those really bad bumps at speed where you come off the seat, the seat may flip up too. I don’t mind my ass going airborne (the price you pay for riding a rigid) but I want the seat to be where I left it when I come back down for a landing . . .

Here's how my seat, built in the fashion described above, looks on my bike. The first photo shows the U-bolt, crossbar, and spring deal.

[longbow]

great post NickD

[Am4wag]

NickD covers alot of "bases" that are very often overlooked,especially if you're gonna spend time in the saddle.Been "playing" w/solo's here lately myself.Bought up a 16x12 LaRosa,3"coil springs,3" clothspin springs,4" spring shocks.Loved the look of the LaRosa-made a T bracket,welded some brackets on frame,ran it w/the spring shocks for a week-ass killed me after an hour-fine for a bar hopper.I ended up buying a late model police/touring solo w/o all the air shit.Modified the T bracket to swivel at the point where rear gas tank mount is (bolt straight thru backbone).Seat looked like an aircraft carrier,so trimmed about 2-3 inches off the sides,and it already has a nice kick up,and nice ass foam.Trimmed all down and used the same comfort weave covering.Running the 3" coil springs and so far so good.Read NickD's post very careful...hats off to you NickD-very well said.

[Tim B]

Originally Posted by NickD

Maybe it's just me but I don't see a photo in the OP.

Anyway like you, Hogbiker, I rode my rigid with a slammed (framed mounted) seat for a long time before switching to a spring mounted seat. And since then the seat is the one overall thing I've changed, fret over, and modified more than anything else since I finished my build. Before launching into my seat saga let me say the single most important thing that makes a rigid ridable, and more than just a barhopper, is ergonomics. The handlebars, footpegs, and seat must work together and fit your body like a custom made suit. Get just two out of the three right and you'll still be miserable after fifty miles.

But while ergonomics are very important there's two other considerations. The overall look and (in my case) ride height. Let's take the latter first. I'm pretty much average height at 5'8" so by height I'm not talking about my feet being flat on the ground. I'm talking about that feeling of sitting "in" the bike more than feeling you're sitting "on" the bike. As for looks, and out of the three, this is the one area you can compromise a bit. Nothing looks as good on rigid as a slammed seat so, at least in my opinion, any spring seat up is going to be a compromise (more on that later.)

The major advantage of a slammed seat, besides the look, is because the seat nests nicely in the angles formed by the frame and rear fender it holds your butt in place as there's no way to slide any further backwards. This is not only important under hard acceleration it's important when you're just putting down the highway. If the seat doesn't hold you in place than you're always hanging on by your arms off the handlebars. And that gets old after ten minutes. To achieve that butt support (that held in feeling) with a solo spring seat it must have a major kick up in the seat pan itself. (The back part of the seat pan must be bent up pretty severely.) Now if you look on E-bay, or anywhere else on-line, or even if you're holding a seat pan in your hand it may appear there's enough kick up in it, but think again. The pictures we see don't take into consideration these seat pans don't sit flat level on the frame. They follow the lines of the frame, which on most rigids rise higher towards the neck. Sure you can put in 4, 5, and even six inch springs under the seat to even it out, and bring the kick-up back into play, but sorry, I'm not Farmer John rolling down the boulevard on his friggen tractor. So here we are talking compromise again. Probably the most comfortable way to ride a rigid is with the sort of seat like the MoCo put on the now deceased Crossbones. And that type of seat goes all the way back to when all Harley frames came stock from the factory with rigid frames. Yes, I know looks are subjective, but to me those type of seats look hideous on the type of bikes we ride.

So hold the seat pan in your hand and tilt it up to the same angle as your lower frame rails. If you’re looking at a photo tilt your head. Yes, that’s right, the more you tilt up the nose of the seat the more kick-up that goes way in the rear. So with almost any seat pan you buy plan on heating up and bending in more kick-up. Now this isn’t much of an issue if you build your own seat pan, but there are several well made ones on E-bay that are cheap enough to not make it worth your time and effort. I know it sounds like you’re planning on buying a complete solo seat, but if the kick-up isn’t right you’re going to have to remove the leather and foam to fix it anyway. That’s not as hard as it sounds as you can drill out the pop rivets to remove the leather cover and a heat gun to remove the glued on foam. But if you can do all that why pay big bucks for a complete seat? Just buy the seat pan, bend in some more kick-up, go down to the local crafts store and buy a yard of decent leather and closed cell foam and some glue. A hobby style pop rivet gun (hand squeezed) and the rivets are cheap at any decent hardware store. If you want a full on killer laced up leather seat you can set up the seat pan and all the rest we'll cover below and then just send it out. There's plenty of guys who do great leather seat work right on this forum.

Okay, so now you have the seat sorted out. Time for the springs. Don’t right away go crazy nuts and weld two posts to you frame’s crossbar. Mounting your solo seat that way, even with very short springs, makes the back of the seat sit up too high. That’s good if you didn’t first bend in more kick-up, but all of a sudden the seat isn’t following the lines of the fame any longer. And there’s a big ugly gap between the back of the seat and the fender. It also, again, lends itself to sitting you “on” the bike rather than “in” the bike. There’s a much easier and simpler way to mount the rear of the seat and it’s a way that doesn’t marry you to it like welding in posts.

U-bolts! Yes, that’s right I said garden variety U-bolts. Get two that are much longer than you think you need and that fit your frame’s crossbar. Before we get into the mounting let’s look at springs. Look, nothing you do seat wise is going to make your rigid float down the road like a Sofa-Glide. What you’re trying to accomplish is just take that occasional jarring hit away that makes you think you really are nuts for riding a rigid. To do that you only need springs that are about two inches tall. (Two and a half to three inches if you’re a real heavyweight.) And in both cases you can even get away with a lot less spring height.

Okay, if the U-bolt idea didn’t make you stop reading here’s why they work so well. They give you a lot of adjustability. Once the springs are mounted to the bottom of the seat place the U-bolts on the crossbar a proper distance apart. You’ll notice right away you have two choices for the spring mount. Over the forward part of the U-bolt or over the rear part of the U-bolt. This gives you a choice of sitting more forward or back which directly effects the reach to your handlebars and footpegs. (Keep in mind we aren’t worried about the nose attachment for the seat at this point, but we’ll get to it.)

You can also tilt the U-bolts forward and back which directly effects ride height. And if I can touch just one more time on sitting “in” the bike vs. “on” the bike, sometimes that’s just a matter of small increments of an inch. And remember you bought U-bolts that were too long so you’ll want to cut down the threaded ends to the size you need. Okay, you might be thinking all this will look like ass on a nice bike. But not really. The springs are short (less noticeable) and the seat sits lower toward the frame rails and further back towards the rear fender. Painting the springs and U-bolts to match the frame paint makes them all but disappear. This works great on a black Betty but it’s possible you may have to try a bit harder if you have some type of custom paint job. (Sorry, lol, but to me a custom paint job is something you frame and hang on a wall.)

I actually thought at first the U-bolts would be temporary. I’d ride the bike for a while dicking around with tilting the U-bolts and playing with spring heights until I got it just right. Well I did just that. I found I had to indeed cut the springs down to a custom height (they are only available in half-inch increments) and I moved from the front to the back of the U-bolts a few times. But the U-bolts have been on there a good three years and they never slip, move, or loosen up. And I see no reason do anything else. The only warning is if you have a frame made from very small diameter tube don’t go berserk hogging the U-bolts down. With the way U-bolts are designed there’s a lot of purchase and friction that holds them in place. If you need to protect the paint underneath put a U-bolt width rubber sleeve around the tube first.

Okay, now you have the seat height and distance forward and back set. For the nose mount forget about using any kind of hinge. Your new set-up isn’t a damn see-saw. Ether run a steel strap from under the nose to a bracket further up the frame (this depends on how much backbone stretch your frame has) or mount the nose right under the front of the seat. With the strap you don’t need a hinge as there’s more than enough “flex” in the steel strap to make it work in a lever sort of way. Hard mounted directly under the nose make things a bit stiffer but the seat is long enough that it still works.

As for mounting the seat to the U-bolts you can do it with some flat washers and nuts if you want but since you’re not using a nose hinge just let the springs sit over the top of the U-bolts. It ain’t going anywhere. When you need to remove the seat like if you have a center fill round oil tank its just that one nose bolt you’ll have to remove. Of course if you go with a nose hinge you can just flip the seat up for access, but then on those really bad bumps at speed where you come off the seat, the seat may flip up too. I don’t mind my ass going airborne (the price you pay for riding a rigid) but I want the seat to be where I left it when I come back down for a landing . . .

Here's how my seat, built in the fashion described above, looks on my bike. The first photo shows the U-bolt, crossbar, and spring deal.

good info Nick

[Tortolabob2]

Excellant write up Nick..Great effort to explain something that could easily be skipped over.

[anvilcustoms]

So, is this a low-budget concept for a solo bobbed seat?

Without reading the entire post.....and just looking at the pics.....does that front bracket (the flat long piece that hard bolts to the square bracket ) actually function as a hinge?

How is the comfort of that seat in the pics? Looks like all padding, little form. Maybe I should read the entire post...lol.

Good day

[NickD]

The steel strap is long enough to provide just enough flex so it works without an actual hinge. As long as the rear of the seat can move downward and compress the springs its all good. This particular seat is all foam and there's no padding. Is it a comfortable seat? No, not really, but all I was after was taking out the kidney/tailbone punishment you get on washboard roads and the occasional bad bumps in the road you sometimes fail to avoid. And this setup does that. I addressed in the up-board post, or tried to, how far you'd have to go to get anywhere close to semi-comfortable on a rigid. And this, for reasons I also wrote about, isn't that.

[rem hamilton]

bought a seat @ real good price on e-bay. had no mount. mounts on line were more than the seat. when to Lowe's Home Improve. and bought a hinge for a fence for
5 bucks. cut the "arms" of the hinge leaving the swivel. bolted the swivel on and attached to original mount on bike frame. works great!

[Icon]

Just buy some barrel springs(not beehive) and a seat. Drill some holes in the frame for the barrel springs, enough to run a bolt down the frame. Bolt it under the frame and your done. Have everyting chrome and it will look sweet. You might want to consider a plastic or leather washer under the barrel spring. Good luck.